Views sought.

Probably because alot of the people who ride mountain bikes are teenage lads or macho choppers. It gives the sport a bit of an immature image and consequently it doesnt get taken very seriously (this is probably more to do with the more extreme side of it like dh)

I don’t think MTBing alienates women more than any other outdoor sport. I also don’t think having fewer women than men is a detriment to the sport as a whole.

Women probably are a bit put off by all the nerdy men obsessed with getting one over on each other and playing with what amount to nothing more than expensive toys. See also radio controlled car racing, fishing, any type of motorsport, cricket, ham radio, model building, etc 🙂

Alienated? Holding the sport back?

Tosh.

*Double post edit*

I don’t think MTBing alienates women more than any other outdoor sport.

Dunno – when i used to climb it seemed the balance between men and women was a lot more even.

Can’t say it’s something that really bothers me though tbh.

I don’t feel alienated. Come to Glentress on a saturday afternoon and see hordes of other women who don’t feel alienated.

Thesis time by any chance ??

(although I hear the BDS has bikini babes for podiums now, so if you are looking for some alienated women I suggest you try Descent World)

I’m not Alientated either!! 🙄 And this is a different Hells to the one above!

Captain, not really getting your point. Have you seen the female world cup entry lists? They’re pitiful. Take that to grass roots level and you’re lucky to are 5 girls at an SDA…

In the media in general mtb is marketed as an extreme sport, when in reality it’s not other than few who pursue a particular line of the sport. This may put some people off but draw others in, and it might be that women would be more likely to be put off by this?

I doesnt alienate them, but its not as “inviting” as road cycling IMO.

I went to the MTB WC at Dalby and the women to men ratio was a LOT lower than the ratio at yesterdays National Road Race Champs

Not thesis time – I was just reflecting on what’s holding back the sport in general, and think this is the key thing – on a number of levels.

There is absolutely no doubt women are alienated from the sport, in the main! I like the climbing analogy – at my local wall it is always exactly evenly split. This is plainly not the case with mountain biking.

One thing which is interesting is that in Chamonix where I went recently the mountain biking scene was split far more evenly along gender lines. It’s different in Surrey – I wonder if it’s different too in Morzine. Bet it is.

I think essentially the closer the sport goes in its ethos towards motorbikes, cars, complexity, “spending a weekend in the garage filing down a chainguide to get it just so, when the sun is shining” anorak-ness – the more it alienates the general population. The more it becomes like hiking – i.e., “throw on a pair of boots and go walk”-level of simplicity, the more broadly it appeals, including to women.

In short I don’t think the issues are gender-specific.

Also the more magazines fetishise downhill-keraziness and big crashes, “ha ha let’s ride our bikes using scuba gear or down a skyscraper using abseiling gear”, the more gimpy it looks and again, the more it alienates the general population.

The point is that there are a huge number of women riding, at all levels including the very highest. I just don’t see that there’s any of this alienation you speak of.

All levels of our mountain bike training courses are popular with women. However, I think it would be fair to say, that there are more men than women involved with mountain biking. Unsure why though.

CFH – its far less than a 50 / 50 split.

Do you understand the word Alienate? I dont think you do!

It’s because they can’t ride, isn’t it?

JHW’s point about the gender split among riders in Chamonix is interesting. One of the main things that has struck me when I’ve been riding in the States is how much more diverse the scene is. In Oregon, Fruita and Moab you get a real mix of men and women and of different age groups and of families out for a ride together. There are mixed groups, women riding on their own and groups of women riding together. It could be because these are all more outdoory places and so the sample is self-selecting, but the UK really does seem strange by comparison.

Not from my expriernce GG

Although I do agree that more women seem to be drawn to road biking. Maybe some women dont like getting dirty :o)

There is absolutely no doubt women are alienated from the sport, in the main! I like the climbing analogy – at my local wall it is always exactly evenly split. This is plainly not the case with mountain biking.

It may be the case at an indoor wall but proper (outdoor) climbing seems to be male dominated to the same extent as biking. Most outdoor sports seem to be though.

OK, I’m being asked to substantiate the premise of my original post. It’s anecdotal, but:-

– I used to work in a bike shop, for about a year part time. Sold quite a few mountain bikes to men. Never sold one to a woman.

– Just check out Peaslake green any weekend.

– I ride occasionally with a club. There has never been more than one woman on any of the rides I have gone on (usually 6-10 men).

– The number of women who enter the races I’ve done (both cross country and downhill) are simply far, far lower than the number of men, at all levels but particularly at junior levels

– I have never, on any of my trips to the Alps except the last one which was independent, encountered a woman as part of the riding group. I have only encountered women on those trips at all when they accompany husbands/partners and then they stay at home or go walking.

– A lot of guys in my friendship circle express interest in learning to mountain bike (it’s rarely followed up admittedly). Women never do – a definite “leave it to the boys” tone comes over when the subject comes up.

– all of my past girlfriends have been outdoorsy, skiing, sailing, walking etc. – yet none was interested in mtbing.

Skiing walking and climbing? I’ve never done these sports in less than a 50/50 gender balance environment. The difference with mountain biking is marked.

we work hard to get women mtber’s into the sport side of riding mountain bikes. We are one of the few events that offers equal prizes (although we have lost a category for the women) compared to the matching blokes category

We also offer free coaching with our series entry for new comers to the sport and will hopefully have a full women’s group (spaces still available)on day 2 on the 30th July, and we work very hard to keep the atmosphere friendly and everybody tolerant of each other on the course.

For us there is nothing that we do that should alienate women riders and in fact we work hard to encourage them to come along and join in the fun. If women have suggestions on what more we could do we are happy to listen and take on board their views and act upon them.

As for the OP, I would suggest that the question assumes there is alienation as a given fact. I would suggest that it isn’t proven and there may well be a lot of other factors that reduce the number of women firstly riding mtb’s and then secondly racing them.

My experience is that far more women do road riding than mtbing – audaxes and sportives seem to have a significant proportion, yet I rarely see a woman mtber. No idea why, though.

It’s the same in Spain, I see very few women out riding. I think it’s a cultural thing, I see very few Spanish women doing sports at all – even running, which in the UK (or London, at least) seems to be more popular with women than men.

Are you sure you aren’t just a woman repeller ??

I see loads of women out on the trails, raced quite a few and most of my female friends are bikers.

The numbers of women at races are improving too, especially in the juniors.

Not as many as men, true, but it’s getting better and will take a while to work through.

Participation may not be 50/50 on gender lines but the ratio is improving all the time.

“alienated” is overstating the case by several million miles….

There are only 2 girls I know that are interested in sport/fitness.

Almost all the girls I know have no interest in any sport/fitness activities, so one that involves mud/things to perform maintenance on/potential for injury definitely merits no attention.
Proportionally, many more men I know play 5-aside football or cycle or run or do triathlons etc. I don’t know why this is the case, but it always has been. This probably has something to do with the lack of women in mountain biking.

Even at school there’d be the girls who would forget their kit every week or have their period every week to get them out of games. Hardly any of the boys would try & get out of games & if they did the teachers were a lot less accepting of excuses.

Are you sure you aren’t just a woman repeller ??

Maybe the OP should be “to what extent is jhw’s failure to wash his shorts holding back the sport?”

Not very ‘sexy’, is it?

No, I’m sorry but it’s true. IME women tend to gravitate towards sports with a stronger ‘sexy’ image, the same way as men gravitate towards rufty tufty macho sports like MTBing and not do stuff like ballet and that so much. I’m not saying that being ‘sexy’ is the primary consideration for all women who partake in sports, but societal gender roles, expectations and social conditioning definitely have a part to play here.

When I worked in bike shops, the vast majority of women I dealt with were into biking cos of the fitness and health benefits, not the thrills and spills. And they were definitely far, far choosier about their clothing choices. Just my observations.

I think in a simliar but different way, this applies to Black and Brown folk; cycling isn’t seen as ‘cool’ amongst certain groups (I know that many Asians tend to look down on cycling as poor man’s transport, rather than a leisure activity).

And MTBing is a bit like golf; it’s more about the equipment than the enjoyment, for many blokes. But that’s men for you I spose; worried more about what their equipment looks like than how to enjoy using it….

But that’s men for you I spose; worried more about what their equipment looks like than how to enjoy using it….

Someone I was riding with recently made a very interesting point to this effect – that he thinks men mostly choose their riding discipline based on the type of bike which appeals to them aesthetically – rather than choosing their discipline then their bike.

I wonder if that’s just a guy thing.

Not sure it alienates women any more than any other sport; women are not encouraged into sport generally, and mountain biking is a niche part of a niche sport.

TBH, at the moment, mountain biking alienates me and I was a boy last time I looked. I was out with some local riders the other day, a chance meeting with a group that contained two women, and it was bloody tedious. Pushing up anything even remotely technical, padded up, lugging huge Camelbaks that must have contained small children they were that big, stopping at the top of every hill for 15 minutes. It took 2 hours to cover a distance of 5 miles, more like a walk with bikes than any form of sport.

I much prefer riding alone; at least I get to go somewhere.

mountain biking alienates me

At risk of us forming a grump brigade, I completely agree, when I think about it. I often get a slight sense of ennui in Aston Hill car park or Peaslake. Lift queue at Morzine. It’s nothing personal, it’s just the demographic needs shaking up.

I think the scene really needs more women right now, not just for the obvious benefits but because without them it risks getting stale.

what about women only rides as a means of encouragement ? I see that Meetup Glasgow are doing one soon…

if it get smore people out on the trails and confident riding then can’t be a bad thing ?

It took 2 hours to cover a distance of 5 miles, more like a walk with bikes than any form of sport

Not exactly a representative sample is it? I’ve seen plenty of ‘Evans shopping list’ mtb’ers, male and female with bikes and gear far in excess of their ability. I tend to think of it (probably unfairly) as a London thing – the idea that unless you’ve spent 3K you’re ill prepared for the wilds of the North Downs.
I’ve fixed punctures for numerous full carbon full sussers worth more than my car, but I still like to think of it as one more person on a bike. Unless they’re a complete ass-hat of course but they’re rare.

In the past I have ridden with groups that contained women, and they do help to moderate that testosterone silliness that sees us battering along constantly trying to outdo one another, but the whole magazine style huge bikes, huge pads, huge back packs, get to a downhill, spend half an hour talking about it, do it, spend another hour getting to the next bit, rinse, repeat is not for me.

The guys I met did a five hour ride, and covered as much ground as I used to do on a Tuesday evening 2 hour fell run. My wife simply wouldn’t spend that long out biking every Sunday, she, like lots of people has a life to be getting on with.

An important point in this debate is the way women tend to be the ones with childcare responsibility; they can’t just jeff off all day with some mates, or for a weekend to Glentress.

Sorry, peppering this thread with responses a bit

I think the “Evans shopping list” is actually a good thing for increasing participation in the sport, including by women, if what you mean by that is “more standardisation of equipment and more transparent prices for repairs“.

There is this debate time and time again. MTBing does not alienate woman, I just think less women do the sport. Woman are potentially put off by the the technical aspects and think it’s super hard. I’ve been riding for 17 odd years but never ridden in a group with more than 3 woman it’s rubbish I’ve been trying to encourage girls for years but they just aren’t interested! Yes there are more in professional sport but not locally where I ride!!

At the risk of generalising, climbing used to be fairly blokey, now it’s way more balanced. And there’s nothing odd about seeing lots of women in the magazines, no hint of positive discrimination or window dressing. I think biking is just a bit behind the curve and might well even out a bit over time. Perhaps with a nudge in the right direction from some stronger female editorial, journalism, photography.

and think it’s super hard

The perverse thing is that, as someone said to me once, you can learn to jump in a morning whereas it takes 5 years to learn to play guitar (which plenty of women do)

But you can learn to play the guitar at home, whereas much of modern mountain biking involves bikes into cars, 1-2-3 hour drive, a maximum of fannying about, a minimum of actual riding, then 1-2-3 hours home and more messing about.

The whole sport as portrayed in mags is moving inexorably towards golf in so many ways, the clothes, the equipment, the location, the excuses, the exclusivity.

…and the more money individuals spend on it, the more exclusive and alienating it becomes.