What about it's density?
Now there's something we could characterise as child abuse over and above religion!
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why can't we criticise religions or religious people without getting grief
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Posted 3 years ago #
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Very possibly and it's a reasonable argument. However, I think it only goes to prove that both religious and social indoctrination and it's related pressures are morally wrong.
do you agree that ultimately the child will get a better education/start in life because of these social indoctrinations?
If so is that a bad thing? and why is it morally wrong to want the best for your child?
Posted 3 years ago # -
do you agree that ultimately the child will get a better education/start in life because of these social indoctrinations?
If so is that a bad thing? and why is it morally wrong?
The child has been removed from it's family. The family did not ask for this to be done but would be under impossible social pressure to allow it. This is morally wrong. Every benefit that the child stands to receive, in your argument, are material. The feelings of the child's family or the future psychology of the child are not accounted for.
If that's enlightenment, I'm happy to be in the dark.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The family did not ask for this to be done but would be under impossible social pressure to allow it.
but what if the family want it? as it would lift their child out of poverty and allow them to have a life they could never have provided?
you seem to be superimposing your own western middle class safe values, onto Tibetan/Nepalese peasant family whose concerns aren't what matching bits they can get for their bike, but instead how to get food on the table and educate their children.
In that situation, what parent wouldn't want their child to be chosen to lead there people and be educated by the elite of their society.
Posted 3 years ago # -
you seem to be superimposing your own western middle class safe values, onto Tibetan/Nepalese peasant family whose concerns aren't what matching bits they can get for their bike, but instead how to get food on the table and educate their children.
Not at all, I'm going on the evidence of my degree course material, which stated very clearly that the family were distressed by the event.I think it's perhaps your own western middle class safe values that are making you feel that a Tibetan/Nepalese peasant family are incapable of bringing a child safely and happily into the world and need any kind of external help in making it possible.
Posted 3 years ago # -
so, Darrell et al, I go to church on Sundays, have a belief in the Christian God, mind my own business about it, have a responsible job in the public sector, a couple of science based degrees and accept the theory of evolution rather than being a creationist, and you want to equate me with somebody who touches up little girls?
Obviously no parents amongst you, or else you have a misplaced sense of the absurd. Vomit inducing, really. You're the one preaching hatred, not me.
Posted 3 years ago # -
i personally think that all religions are obscene and all religious people dangerous and deluded. In particular i take great offense that parents brainwash and indoctrinate their young children and i think this is tantamount to child abuse. To put unfounded faith over science and evidence, insults me and bankrupts our society.
I think you pretty much answered your own question. Semi-literate drivel like that is just as offensive as some of the more extreme religious views. By all means put forward an opposite view to religion, or aspects of religion, but please try and do it in a reasoned and intelligent manner. And if you aren't capable, do try and get someone to write it for you.Posted 3 years ago # -
Poking at religion with a stick is fun
Organised religion is anti-funSimple, really.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Well, clearly I was being flippant. I don't know anything about the Dalai Lama's involvement in the removal of the infant Tashi Tsering from his family, to live a life amongst Buddhist monks, in the belief that he is the reincarnation of Khensur Rinpoche.
But then again, probably better than being brought up by Fred and Rose West, who I don't think were overly religeous.
BTW, before eanyone goes off on one, obviously I am being flippant again.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Organised religion is anti-fun
From the tone of some of the posters on this thread there's not much room for fun in the atheist world either..
Posted 3 years ago # -
Simple, really.
Yes, you are.
Posted 3 years ago # -
My my, the child's getting stroppy - late again with our schoolwork are we?
Posted 3 years ago # -
You're the one that responded, when I poked fun at you!
Lovely!
Posted 3 years ago # -
..and if replying to being poked at proves something, you're point would be?
Posted 3 years ago # -
sorry your point - damn me and my apostrohe addiction
Posted 3 years ago # -
you're point would be?
You don't like it when it's done to you.
To give, you gotta take.
Atheists; they don't like it up 'em!
Posted 3 years ago # -
My niece who is 7 goes to church every Sunday morning, and when I see her she occasionaly talks about what she has learnt at Sunday school, or what will happen if she is a naughty girl. Some of it scares me, some of it makes me just stand there is disbeleif.
Now some times my wife (who went to Catholic school, but like me has no religious beleif at all) will start asking her questions about why they have told her certain thing, or how it could be plausable, or does she beleive it. Imediately my niece's mother will change the conversation or literally jab my wife in the ribs.
So apparantley it is ok for a child to be taught one biased way of life and one way of right and wrong, and to be allowed to challenge what she is being told, or for other people to offer alternative methods.
Oh and don't ask about me about the Catholic church, Africa and condoms.
As an adult you can turn up to a religion, have a look, and see if you like it and move on if not. Child rely on adults to teach them, and certainly in my nieces situation she certainly isn't getting both sides of the story...
Posted 3 years ago # -
we were having conversation on saturday and it turned to religion.
one guy saying he'd have to be there with his folks the next day (sunday) at church.
one guy that was present is chinese. he described communism being akin to religion. was a good point.
in days of old if you didn't believe, and that is all it is - a belief, you didn't get what or where you wanted in life. much like communism today.
he went on to say about one guy in his uni class who hadn't finished his project, for which he had had 2 months to finish. when asked by his professor he said that he had less time as he went to church on sundays and took the rest of the day off.
this was considered a valid excuse.
there is a church in new mexico where the parishoners take peyote to help them 'see' god. anywhere else in the states this is illegal but as its use is for religious purposes its ok'd by the state. there is a lobby to help sufferers of MS use canabis, but they get nowhere.
why? why should religious beliefs be held above the needs of other peole?
why pray? you pray to god so that your wishes be fulfilled. but isn't god's will already decided? if so, why pray?
a woman was quoted as saying "god will help my daughter get better" after the earthquake in italy. didn't god send the earthquake, as was his will...?
the whole thing is a scam.
and why should governments apologise to muslim communities after the whole printing of pictures of the cartoon mohammed? f@ck 'em.
americans would not vote for an atheist to be president. more likely to vote a jeew, black man or even a poof into office.
someone who takes into consideration what is written in a book about a man, or his teachings, is less likely to be, in my mind, of independant thought.
shit, i heard a story about some girl and three bears. must be true because my folks told me when i was real young and now i've read it.
infact. if we were to tell all children from a very young age that they must believe, must go to church at xmas and egg time, then they will believe. they are naive.
Posted 3 years ago # -
and why should governments apologise to muslim communities after the whole printing of pictures of the cartoon mohammed? f@ck 'em.
americans would not vote for an atheist to be president. more likely to vote a jeew, black man or even a poof into office.
Hmm. Some mature views there, alpin...
I see where yer coming from, just the way you've presented your argument is a bit off-key.
But if you don't consider that the government has an obligation to consider the feelings of all communities, then likewise, no-one need respect yours.
Posted 3 years ago # -
someone who takes into consideration what is written in a book about a man, or his teachings, is less likely to be, in my mind, of independant thought.
And what does that say of someone who takes no consideration of 'a book about a man'? I'd have considered that person to be less likely capable of thought and analysis.
Your diatribe does not read at all rationally, sonny.
Posted 3 years ago # -
someone who takes into consideration what is written in a book about a man, or his teachings, is less likely to be, in my mind, of independant thought.
And someone who doesn't read books (regardless of the subject) is, in my humble opinion, far more likely to be ignorant on a huge variety of topics. Sorry, poor argument that one I'm afraid. I'd say it's always a good idea to read books or articles putting forward a viewpoint different from your own.
Posted 3 years ago # -
You don't like it when it's done to you.
To give, you gotta take.
Atheists; they don't like it up 'em!
eh? who said I was an atheist?
..and again, if you replied to my post what exactly was the point you were trying to make?I apreciate you're a bit on the dense side, but can you try making a bit of sense for a change?
Posted 3 years ago # -
There are many things done in the name of a religion which would not be condoned by rational members of that religion. Extremists are to be found everywhere.
Speaking as a Christian, I find so-called Christian extremists at least as scary as any other extremists.
I don't call any rational follower of any faith rude names and don't like being insulted for my beliefs.
Why does any rational person feel the need to insult another person's beliefs as long as those beliefs don't harm anyone or incite harm against another?
Posted 3 years ago # -
As an adult you can turn up to a religion, have a look, and see if you like it and move on if not. Child rely on adults to teach them, and certainly in my nieces situation she certainly isn't getting both sides of the story...
Its how religion indoctrinates...get them while they are young and unquestioning.
So seem like the a win/win to me, the child will be highly educated and brought up in a very tolerant and peaceful environment and when he comes of age he can decide to live his life as he choses.
And this is a classic example. What life will the child chose? The unknown or the only one he has known and was chosen for him?
Obviously no parents amongst you, or else you have a misplaced sense of the absurd. Vomit inducing, really. You're the one preaching hatred, not me.
Or perhaps we don't want our Children to be brought up anywhere near Religion. The original post regarding Child abuse is over the top.
I thought I'd underline that line, coming from a Christian.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Why does any rational person feel the need to insult another person's beliefs as long as those beliefs don't harm anyone or incite harm against another?
Because the ultimate goal of these religions is to have everyone "under their wing" whether we like it or not.
Posted 3 years ago # -
not against reading, i'm all for it.
just not one particular set of books that tell us how we should live our lives according to a handful of authors.
i don't consider those that hold deep religious beliefs to be of a rational mind.
i make no apologies for what i, or others say about religion. if god is that upset i'll live for eternity in hell (very unlikely though) which i'm guessing is more fun than heaven.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Because religious people can't see that they are fruityloop, so they get angry when we try to tell them. Despite all that bollocks being about forgiveness, and all that. **** retards.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Oh, and my background is Exclusive Brethren (left a long time ago). Now there's an ideologically scary organistion.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I'm an agnostic but I really don't see what is wrong with religious parents bringing up their children exactly how they want.
Most parents in the West tell their kids that Santa brings their Christmas presents etc. & the tooth fairy collects teeth that have fallen out - in most cases they simply allow the kids to figure it out for themselves when they're a bit older.
Kids aren't stupidPosted 3 years ago # -
Kids aren't stupid
the fact that some people continue believing in religion after childhood would suggest that some really are. And some don't grow out of wearing football shirts either.Posted 3 years ago # -
I don't consider religionists 'fruityloop' but I find it very hard to understand them. Still, if they want to believe in the christian/muslim/chinese/hindu/aztec/martian gods then that's their business. Just leave me out of their faith until I come calling (the number of times I have been 'invited' to go the 'Alpha course' [read: very poor brainwashing attempt]....).
While others would consider me a hard-core atheist I believe I am omni-agnostic. You cannot prove a negative (i.e. there is/are *no* god(s)) so there must be an infinitesimally small chance that any of them exist. Therein lies the rub - it is *any* of them. Zeus/Apollo/Flying Spaghetti Monster/Invisible Pink Unicorn/Christian god/Muslim god/Hindu gods. I believe in them all to exactly the same extent!
Which bring up something else - a person of religion X, while themselves consider themselves of faith, are usually much more vehemently atheist about god Y, which isn't in their pantheon. Odd that.
One more interesting thing is the concept of the devil/beezulbub etc. You could argue that the abrahamic faiths are not really a monotheistic faith but a duo-theistic faith with the 'good' god being 'god' and the evil god being 'the devil'. Still, the devil isn't discussed much in the bible but so much is made of it. Stick, I guess as opposed to the carrot of 'heaven' (which could bring us into the 'pure-land' view of some buddhist branches but lets not go there!).
Posted 3 years ago # -
I thought I'd underline that line, coming from a Christian. [:lol:]
very droll.
Because the ultimate goal of these religions is to have everyone "under their wing" whether we like it or not.
see, that seems to be a common misconception. Not sure where you get the idea that Christianity supports conscription.
Posted 3 years ago # -
see, that seems to be a common misconception. Not sure where you get the idea that Christianity supports conscription.
To be fair, activeDuty:
From google -
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,220,000 for evangelical church. (0.22 seconds)
I know someone in an evangelical church. Scary. From 'evangelicalchurch.org' (the top hit on google):
The Evangelical Church is a movement of "Harvest-focused, Holiness-fueled" churches committed to establishing healthy multiplying churches that proclaim the Gospel of free and full salvation from all sin for all people. It is our intent to fulfill the Great Commission of Jesus Christ to make disciples of all nations.
I don't see this as a misconception. Could you tell me how this is not true? I thought the 1990s were to be the decade of evangelicalism according to the Archbishop of Canterbury at the time?
And don't start on the 'Jesus Army'. If he existed and was a nice bloke he would be rotating in his grave at a high speed with that bunch...
Posted 3 years ago # -
Because religious people can't see that they are fruityloop, so they get angry when we try to tell them.
Sorry to disappoint you, but they don't. Most just tend to laugh when they read childish silly things like that.Perhaps you could show me on here where someone putting forward a pro-religious point of view (I'm staying neutral) has shown any sort of anger or hatred? On the other hand I could show you umpteen comments like "child abusers" and "******* retards" that rather make me think all the hatred is coming from one side. I do feel very sorry for you if you really hate folk that much. That's genuine, I'm not being sarcastic.
Posted 3 years ago # -
see, that seems to be a common misconception. Not sure where you get the idea that Christianity supports conscription.
Conscription, an appropriate word because if you are born in this country you are technically governed by Christian beliefs, traditions and of course their influence in the political system. The only reason you are getting so many bishops etc speaking out recently is because their influence is on the wane.
And having once been of the Christian Ilk, I understand the methods and means completely.
Posted 3 years ago #
Topic Closed
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