After the recent thread where a couple of female forum users said they were fed up and off (though happily they’re back 🙂 ) before it all deteriorated into the usual slanging match, I was discussing the issue of women being put off forums by some of the male dominated aspects of them with a female friend. She’s a roadie by background and a regular on a couple of more road biased forums. In the last 5 years or so, she’s become a regular mtber too but hasn’t really got involved on mtb forums. I suggested that she give STW a go on the back of the aforementioned thread to see what she thought:

She didn’t want to post herself for reasons that probably will become clear below so she asked me to post her reply

I registered and started posting a couple of quite normal questions about bike mechanic issues rather than the non-bikey stuff. I did’t mention being a girl. I got a few replies, most were pretty helpful and friendly enough. In that sense it’s a really good forum.

I also had a read of some of the things you mentioned and that was where I was maybe put off. There were two main things I really disliked and have put me off using the Singletrackworld forum for anything that’s community like instead of just about bike mechanics.

The first thing was the constant arguing. The topic where the two girls said they were leaving was really something else!! I can see the problem they had though really for me, blokes will always say stupid sexist stuff (sorry, no offense!) and that happens in the real world and I can take it though it can be annoying. For me, it’s easy to ignore those sexist people as they’re clearly a bit stupid or insecure. The arguing though is just crazy. The people arguing on the girls leaving topic seemed to all be blokes and as far as I could understand it seemed to be more about who could shout the loudest, be nastiest and prove that they were cleverer or more right than anything really to do with sexism or trying to make the place more welcoming for girls. I did a bit of clicking through some of the worst people’s history and found that they seem to do nothing other than argue on here! That’s what really puts me off, far more than some stupid sexism. (and on the “back doors” thing, I’ve heard it IRL and always just thought it was crude but not intended to suggest rape!!)

Second, the “sexism” thing I really disliked was the people who as soon as it was clear that a woman was posting something, tried to show how equal ops they were. The overt predators I can live with as again they’re just a bit stupid but I really dislike the smarmy ones who immediately try to get on side with you because you’re a girl. To me, that just sounded creepy. Over the years, I think most girls have met blokes that are like that as they think it’ll make you like them. Right up to the point where you make clear you’re not interested and they swing completely the other way. Really creepy as I said. There seemed to be a lot of that going on on the girls leaving topic too.

I also asked a few others of the girls I ride with and they seemed to agree generally – sexism they can live with, especially if it’s not the norm but they hate the male ego arguments.

I’ll be on the forum from time to time but I can’t really see myself using it to discuss non-bike stuff as I’m scared that I might say the wrong thing and be torn apart for it!

So, from her POV at least, it seems that it’s the arguing that puts her (and at least some other women) off, not the sexism. Food for thought maybe.

The message is clear, TJ MUST leave the forum.

😈

I think that’s exactly the kind of post she was talking about actually.

STW = Clash of the Keyboard Warrior Egos

There’s never a dull day on here. It’s a wonderful balance of people who know how to wind people up, and flaky people who take the bait easily.

i agree 110% with her, i hope she’s reading this and will see me as a friend, if it turns out she doesnt like me then i take it back 😆

mrsconsequences main reason for hardly using the forum, despite finding the good guys very funny (cougar, deadly, binners, jamie, TSY, b’mitch etc) is pretty much identical to what’s posted in the OP

🙂 @ phil

I’m scared that I might say the wrong thing and be torn apart for it!

Tbh, this is the reason a lot of people don’t get involved – not just girls – mostly, I’m just here for humour and a bit of mickey-pulling with those who realise what I’m up to.

The only threads which I can dogmatic on are the wooden flooring threads – which pop up every couple of weeks or so – that about fulfills my need to be a cock. 🙂

Maybe you should point your friend in the direction of some of the threads where people have been experiencing some RealLife anguish and they could see how supportive STW can be sometimes. Also, recently when I was in Manchester, a bunch of really nice chaps took me out for a few beers – for me, that is what STW is all about. Mrs deadly sometimes looks at threads here and just rolls her eyes – she has a point.

I agree with the creepy thing. You can see the change in some people’s approach as soon as they realise it’s a girl.

DD – I did mention that originally actually. People on here always show a far better side when serious things are being discussed or just setting up real world meetings. Trouble is that the norm seems to be cock-fighting even if that’s not really what people are really like as the type of threads you mention show.

I agree with the creepy thing. You can see the change in some people’s approach as soon as they realise it’s a girl.

This is true – I do think though (and not arguing with you samuri) that some posters are genuinely trying to make the wimmin feel more welcome, but their borderline personality disorders ensure that they go just slightly too far – which ends up reading a bit creepy.

It’s not just girls though who get fed up with the arguing.

I now can generally identify threads that are starting to degenerate & try not to post in them or get involved, even if the initial ‘point’ of the thread was a good one.

I also find myself reading over something I am about to post to see if I have covered every conceivable angle that it can be taken, because otherwise someone will pull it to bits.

Quite often I write a fairly lengthy reply to something, read through it, decide I don’t want to get involved as it’s more hassle that it’s worth and just delete it all.

Trouble is that the norm seems to be cock-fighting

Sadly, I can’t find any reason to disagree with you. 😐

The forum’s full of cocks.

Too much self righteousness, too many combative egos, indeed too many people who I assume are believing they’re forum elders and hence opinions carry more weight, limited rational argument, inconsistent user moderation, uber cliquey, a lot of “noise”.

A fair bit different to road forums…but probably symptomatic of more users – more topics and more to shout about.

But some good people.

I probably shouldn’t mention this, but the Big Hitters thread I started yesterday was a ploy. It seems to be working too.

The idea was that by having a thread that was so self-reverential and indulgent, they couldn’t resist the lure of loudly arguing with each other endlessly, while weeing higher and higher and higher up the wall.

While they’re safely taken care of, stuck as they are in the endless circle of Armageddon and borderline flouncing, the rest of us can get on with taking the piss out of each other and talking utter crap. Surely what the interweb was really invented for. Well…. apart from the pron obviously.

But, Sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh. Don’t tell ’em! We seem to be getting away with it 😉

the rest of us can get on with taking the piss out of each other and talking utter crap

I think it’s the taking the piss bit that gets misconstrued sometimes.

anyone coming on here for the first time and seeign the sort of reaction anything ‘hora’ related gets must wonder who the poor bloke is and what he’s done to antagonise such a wide range of people.

There are some really helpful folk on here and it is a genuine shame that some people, regardless of sex, feel uncomfortable posting. However there are some genuinely nasty people too, the STW Taliban spring to mind (you know who you are!) who masquerade as “the good guys”.

Edit: Tada!!

Did it take you a long time to make all that up, Clubber? 😉

peterfile – Member
…There’s never a dull day on here. It’s a wonderful balance of people who know how to wind people up, and flaky people who take the bait easily.

Which would be fine if they restricted it to the chat forum.

I think it also stops people posting in the bike section.

The arguing and general miserable attitude a lot of people have here does get a bit overwhelming at times. Not really sure why I keep visiting the forum 😆

Who cares, other than ST and potential lost advertising revenue.

Who are the STW Taliban? Is this a gay muslim swan thing again?

I’d watch it. They’ll break your arm 😉

Why aren’t there more women posting on the forum?

Because there are more men than women mountain biking?

Quite often I write a fairly lengthy reply to something, read through it, decide I don’t want to get involved as it’s more hassle that it’s worth and just delete it all.

Plus 1, completely. I hardly post because of it.
If I did, it would enrich all your lives, so you’re all missing out really. I get to hear my opinions all the time, so it’s no great loss to me.

😉

Genuine LOL (well a chuckle at least) at clubber’s friend’s “review” of the forum. It’s absolutely spot on in my opinion.

I don’t understand all this ‘getting upset by people on the internet’.

In the words of comedian Steve Hughes:

“I want to live in a democracy but I don’t want to be offended”

Well, you’re an idiot!

Why aren’t there more women posting on the forum?
Because there are more men than women mountain biking?

Plus not as many women are internerds.

DezB – you forgot the real reason: women are better at making friends and forming relationships in the real world so they don’t need pretend ones on the interwebs.

Oi, I’ve got loads of friends. Just look at my Facebook page! 😉

you forgot the real reason: women are better at making friends and forming relationships in the real world so they don’t need pretend ones on the interwebs.

is that the reason people are here? as a side effect fair enough. i’m here as i’m ******* bored at work assumed everyone else was the same.

She has absolutely nailed it IMO.
Sad as it is, STW would be more popular if it got rid of the chat forum. This shouldn’t be the case.

i’m here as i’m ******* bored at work assumed everyone else was the same

Yep.

And this should be the only reason to be on an internet forum: because it’s the absolute last resort

That’s just my opinion of course.

I appreciate some people think forums are important or significant or something 😕

the “sexism” thing I really disliked was the people who as soon as it was clear that a woman was posting something, tried to show how equal ops they were.

That kind of hits the nail on the head.

I ended up banned on that very thread. My point wasnt anything sexist at all but on the obvious attempt at protecting and generally creepy behaviour your friend has described there ^

The “big hitters” jumping to protect sue and emsz was a joke.

She has absolutely nailed it IMO.
Sad as it is, STW would be more popular if it got rid of the chat forum. This shouldn’t be the case.

I dunno, one of the best things about the chat forum is that it helps keep the actual bike chat safer from the banging-head-repeatedly-against-wall-until-everyone-listens-to-me nonsense.

Without the chat forum, a thread about Shimano BB cups would rapidly descend into 6 pages of random shouting about anything.

STW would be more popular if it got rid of the chat forum

More members/unique users probably. I doubt it would be as busy in terms of page impressions during the day though.

How many people would come back day after day to read more bike maintenance threads?

The stats on the forum home page support this. The Chat forum has half the number of threads yet a similar number of posts, showing that the Chat forum threads are more popular.

So from an advertising/revenue point of view making the forum more inclusive is not necessarily a good thing. As long as it doesn’t become too exclusive.

I’ve heard it rumoured that some people post on interweb forums in ‘their own’ time. Madness!

I’ll get involved at the risk of being “torn to pieces”.

It’s a forum. Unlike the real world (although in many ways the same) you have a choice of who you interact with. This particular forum has clearly defined sections that you choose to view or not, but it is a choice.

Over-sensitive types keep trying to explain what it is about others that make them reticent but ultimately we’d all be the same if we pander to everyone’s whimsical idiosyncracies and I for one find that idea abhorent.

As far as your friend being able to ‘read’ the intention of another post (i.e. the slimy bloke thing), quite frankly it’s absolutely incredible. No, really – incredible. So many think they understand another person but we as beings have a hard enough time doing so when someone is communicating face-to-face let alone trying to glean their meaning from a few (hastily) written words.

One word – perspective.

Ed. Sorry, fat fingers.

Without the chat forum, a thread about Shimano BB cups would rapidly descend into 6 pages of random shouting about anything.

Errmm…?

Oi, I’ve got loads of friends. Just look at my Facebook page!

And some of them are even real! 😮

I got the sander today Dezinald, thanks! 😀

Is there a reason why there’s no back on the plug? 😕

Agree used to spend more time on here avoiding work
and enjoyed the good humour and …ahem razor sharp wit
this seems to get sucked out of posts pretty quick these
days with the usual shouty,bad attitude,everyone listen to me mob
although sometimes it can still be quite funny ….
i live in hope 🙄