Cummings only had 2.2 SES’s when he won the other day

Was quite a lumpy stage. Was he even on the S5? The only stage I didn’t get to see!

Difficult to tell how deep the Enve wheels are as I think the stupid logo always makes it look deeper than it is.

GCN actually have a video regarding the rider/team choices at MTN-Qhubeka/ENVE

he Syncros bars on the foil are nice,

Interesting that they have gone for a 1 1/2 to 1 1/4 steerer too.

I’d imagine the advantage (if any) would be pretty slight in the middle of the peleton

nickc – Member

I’d imagine the advantage (if any) would be pretty slight in the middle of the peleton

Does every rider spend the whole day sitting in the middle of the peloton? It doesn’t take much to work out who would benefit from a decent aero bike.

dirtyrider – Member

the Syncros bars on the foil are nice, should have made an effort to hide the junction box like on the Canyon ones though
This is the problem I have with aero bikes – they make such an effort to ‘aero’ the frame and then chuck on a lump of battery in the least aero place possible. (Or make a horrible non-aero junction for the internal cabling like on some Giant I’ve seen recently.) Almost like they are only making a token effort, maybe to sell frames to people who believe everything they read. (I’m not sure whether that last sentence is tongue in cheek or not. 🙂 )

dirtyrider – Member
6 watts saving on the new v old

@ 45kph, LOL, every on else using 40kph IIRC, cheats!

Suspect the 40/45 kph comes from aero testing of TT bikes, which is fairly relevant for the average rider. But for road bikes figures it’s not that relevant, maybe 30/35 would be better. Or just publish the CdA at specific yaw angles.

All of this creates a bike which Scott claims will save you six watts over the old Foil. That might not sound like much, but apparently it adds up to a 27 second saving if you’re the type of rider who can knock out a 40km time trial at 45kph

If you are then you wouldn’t be doing it on a Scott Foil!

The reason for me looking around, and boy I really shouldn’t be.. is I borrowed a mates S5 for a few days whlst he borrowed my R5ca (he went to the Alps with it) and I really like the feel of the S5, hate the looks mind.. Thats why I’m interested in both the Trek (gawd help me) and the Scott and the Propel.
I ride the South Downs, it’s my playground see, and the S5 was a really nice ride. I didn’t think it would be, thought it’d be too harsh but nope and it’s climbed the 800-1kmtr climbs I play on really nicely. I didn’t stick my Garmin on to check against my times on my bike but on some sections it “felt” quicker.

I’m planning on a test ride on the Trek, hoping in the next month when stock comes in…

I’ll let you know.

I’ll let you know.

Sounds like it could get expensive!

Hmm.. £5k for the 9 without the spangly wheels 😆 But then I’ve got the M40C’s off my R5 (it’s currently got the r-sys’s on for climbing)

I’m already being moaned at by my inner chimp 😆

Does every rider spend the whole day sitting in the middle of the peloton?

No but the bulk do and even when not they are sitting in the slipstream of another rider. Look at Stybar yesterday, he did a solo effort at the end and was out front for what ~8km. So if he was on that Scott Foil he’d have been maybe <5 seconds faster over the distance, which is next to nothing.

Factor in a lot of th finishes this tour are uphill where any aero benefits a very small.

It’s ‘another’ bike to sell. Most people,once the get a ‘nice’ road bike are unlikely to change it for a while.Roadbiking does’nt have the built in obsolescence that mtb’ing enjoys or the constant upgradeitis (bar maybe a set of wheels).
Bikebouy,would you even be considering swapping your R5 for an equivalent bike in the near future? But having an ‘aero’ bike is a different matter. A few years ago mtb sales were pretty stagnant.Along comes enduro/650b and the merry go round gets a good push and away we go.
At the end of the day professional cycling is there to promote sales (with a large number of title sponsors now being actual bike manufacturers like Trek,BMC,Giant,Argon) they need a direct return.

So it’s only the times when it makes a significant difference how fast they’re going that an aero bike makes a difference?

So if he was on that Scott Foil he’d have been maybe <5 seconds faster over the distance, which is next to nothing.

Enough to make a difference between winning and coming second nowhere on plenty of occasions I can think of.

Factor in a lot of th finishes this tour are uphill where any aero benefits a very small.

On the Mur de Huy maybe, but they were doing about 20mph on at least one of the uphill finishes. Plenty of flattish finishes – I’d include Cummings’ win in that category, as he’d have likely gained more from an aero bike on the finish than he might have lost on the climb. Especially given that as already mentioned the aero frames aren’t that heavy, and it should still be fairly straightforward to get one down to 6.8kg.

Alot of it just comes down to comfort and fit; hence why Rodriguez uses the Aeroad as he wouldn’t be able to get his bars in a low enough position on the standard CF frame.

That’s all there is to it I think.

mrblobby – Member

Suspect the 40/45 kph comes from aero testing of TT bikes, which is fairly relevant for the average rider. But for road bikes figures it’s not that relevant

For racing I’d say it is, even a 3rd cat race is 25mph IME. Sprint/break faster.

Alot of it just comes down to comfort and fit;

For the top riders that’s true, but I suspect for the rest another factor is that the mechanics will want bikes that are to work on.

Does every rider spend the whole day sitting in the middle of the peloton? It doesn’t take much to work out who would benefit from a decent aero bike.

Yes, bu if you’re the domestique at the front of the train on your aero bike then you’re not moving enough of the air out of the way for your leader thus making them use more energy than required. You want your leadout man to be cycling the equivalent of a bus surely 😛

Does every rider spend the whole day sitting in the middle of the peloton?
No but the bulk do and even when not they are sitting in the slipstream of another rider. Look at Stybar yesterday, he did a solo effort at the end and was out front for what ~8km. So if he was on that Scott Foil he’d have been maybe <5 seconds faster over the distance, which is next to nothing.

Aracer already made some points but how about the breakaway riders? They’d give anything to get some ‘free’ power surely? (There are teams and riders whose only raison d’etre is to be in breakaways.) How about Sky’s domestiques, sitting on front of the bunch all day? I expect they’d feel the same. Yes, the majority of the field are just coasting along in the bunch all day but there are a significant amount of riders who should expect to benefit from aero bikes.

breatheeasy – Member
Does every rider spend the whole day sitting in the middle of the peloton? It doesn’t take much to work out who would benefit from a decent aero bike.
Yes, bu if you’re the domestique at the front of the train on your aero bike then you’re not moving enough of the air out of the way for your leader thus making them use more energy than required. You want your leadout man to be cycling the equivalent of a bus surely

I like that! 😆

Only an issue if the leader is second in line. I’d suspect the optimum would be for the front guy to be as aero as possible, then have the guy behind as draggy as possible!

Would be interesting to try in a wind tunnel and see what difference it really makes whether the front guy is on an aero bike (etc.) or not. I suspect the difference would actually be lost in the noise.

I saw an article that I think had Cav’s bike on (may have been somoene else’s), everything was aero and I was quite surprised to see it was 7.4kg or so – I’d assumed they all ran 6.8kg bikes regardless of the aero.

And although cav is a sprinter, he’s not the biggest and other sprinters probably need to carry around slightly heavier components to take the beating they give it.

So I reckon non-aero is probably more due to weight than you might think. Also, as others have said, the frame and wheels make pretty small aero differences, if you’re wearing an aero helmet, overshoes and a skinsuit, that’s massively more beneficial.

Also, as others have said, the frame and wheels make pretty small aero differences

Spec say their new frameset/wheels/bars are 50% of the aero gain but yes, you could wear the shoes, helmet, skinsuit and keep the climbing bike

other sprinters probably need to carry around slightly heavier components to take the beating they give it.

slow mo of yesterdays finish was quite interesting, the whole front line (with the exception of sagan) had their back wheel skipping/sliding from side to side. MOAR POWER!!!!!
Degenkolb’s nodding dog impression was pretty funny too

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/5minutes/

all that time and effort and they sony even fit the Garmin on straight 😆

edit – the image rotates round, in one shot it looks like its of centre, its not

Those Madones are coming to 15lbs ex pedals even with the lighter OCLV 700 frame, tubs, etc, definitely conceding a reasonable amount versus a similarly specced Emonda (for example). The bars look awesome though – no cables, wires, junction box, battery etc, super clean.

Virtually sold on one, just need to try the 54cm as I’ve always ridden a 56 – downsizing to avoid their stupid mile long head tubes, I feel decidedly pro! Sod paying £1000 extra for the H1 frame.

For racing I’d say it is, even a 3rd cat race is 25mph IME. Sprint/break faster.

If even 1% of the aero bikes sold are used for that purpose I’d be surprised. They’d be better off marketing them based on what they can do for your strava segment times 😉

Spec say their new frameset/wheels/bars are 50% of the aero gain but yes, you could wear the shoes, helmet, skinsuit and keep the climbing bike

The interesting thing is that if you look at Specs own data, you will go quicker swapping your BOA shoes for lace ups than you would swapping a Tarmac for the new Venge. Funny how the buying public look to the big bucks purchases for an advantage but probably overlook the smaller details…. it is almost as though most of this aero stuff is an exercise in marketing 😀

It is also funny to time saved at 40km/hr or 45km/hr over and hour quoted as it makes the savings often sound huge. If you say the Foil is 1.5-1.7% fewer W’s compared to the old it sounds much less impressive (6/350 or 6/400). As others have said, the reality is that the actual gain in a real scenario is pretty negligible.

The Felt AR is supposed to be the most aero frame at yaw angles greater than 0 (S5 is still most aero head on)… yet how many people are thinking of buying a Felt? They may be making good stuff but they are losing the marketing battle with Spec/ Trek/ Scott/ etc.

If you already have a ridiculous position, BioRacer skinsuit, aero helmet, laces, shaved legs…. then I guess you it makes sense to eek out the last few seconds dropping a ton of money on the bike. Some of the aero bikes do look rather nice tough which is the main thing!

The interesting thing is that if you look at Specs own data, you will go quicker swapping your BOA shoes for lace ups than you would swapping a Tarmac for the new Venge. Funny how the buying public look to the big bucks purchases for an advantage but probably overlook the smaller details…. it is almost as though most of this aero stuff is an exercise in marketing

To that end then… All this stuff about “aero trumps weight” on bikes is surely bollocks? You’d be better on a less fatiguing bike (that’s not marketing, Foils, Venges etc are harsher than Addicts, Tarmacs etc) that also weighs a bit less…?

If the UCI dropped the weight limit then overnight aero frames,deep section whhels and power meters (possibly not stages!) would disappear.

Some will come down to the way the carbon is engineered, not so much the weight or the aero side of things.
Bikes like the Aero Propel are heavier than their TCR stable mate, but are more efficient when wound up or in the test tunnels.
And lightness doesn’t always equal the best. Again looking at Giant. Their Defy frame is lighter than the top end race TCR frame, but that’s because the TCR has a beefed up BB and front end for the rigors of racing.
I think you just have to look a bike nowadays to see what it’s purpose in life is.

To that end then… All this stuff about “aero trumps weight” on bikes is surely bollocks? You’d be better on a less fatiguing bike (that’s not marketing, Foils, Venges etc are harsher than Addicts, Tarmacs etc) that also weighs a bit less…?

I don’t think aero as a whole is bollocks, but that is more about your position than your bike. So in that respect I’d agree that the reason you don’t see Nibali on a Venge or even Cancellara on the new Madone is because they have gone with what is most comfortable and practical for the ridiculous distance of a GT.

If the UCI dropped the weight limit then overnight aero frames,deep section whhels and power meters (possibly not stages!) would disappear.

Power meters aren’t going anywhere and the aero equipment will always be another thing to sell beside the weightweenie stuff

If the UCI dropped the weight limit then overnight aero frames,deep section whhels and power meters (possibly not stages!) would disappear.

Now if they dropped the weight limit and the need for bikes to resemble a bike from the 1920’s… now that would be interesting 🙂

im not sure the world needs more bikes that look like the Falco Tri Bike

Haha funnily enough I did think about posting a photo of that! Though something like the Lotus bike Boardman used would be a bit easier on the eye.

Someone mentioned Cav and his choice of the old not the new Venge, well according to GCN the brakes on the new one are crap and so anything involving hills or the rain he prefers the old bike.

Some of the current 1920’s “aero” bikes look ok to me…. that’s the main reason to buy one and I’m sold on the idea 😀

I’ll have an S5 by the end of the week*. So excited, can’t wait!!

*I’m winning that British Cycling competition…

I went for an s3 over an s5 back in March. It’s a really nice frame but make sure you use the insert into the stearer as it makes the front end sooooo much stiffer than a regular plug.

Contrary to what people say and believe, it super comfy even compared to the litespeed Siena I had previously.

No, that’s not marketing, that’s just old wives tales

god knows why felt use that hideous 12k carbon look

No, that’s not marketing, that’s just old wives tales

How so? I’m confused how you can refute that. 😕

Are you suggesting a Venge is as comfy as a Tarmac? More so? No different? Roubaix the same? Epic?