Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 171 total)
  • Why are panniers not popular for bikepackers?
  • scotroutes
    Full Member

    That’s the best approach. I’ve been tuning my kit list for years and I suspect I’d do so again if I was taking on a 2,800 mile trip.

    A tent can be psychologically better when the weather is rough and it’s a pleasure to get everything under cover.

    A bivi/tarp does allow more options in terms of pitching. I’ve often arrived at a spot I’d wanted to camp at and found nowhere suitable for a tent (in snow is an obvious one).

    FWIW, I’m currently selling a Macpac Microlight one man tent and a couple of Thermarests…

    boblo
    Free Member

    Had a quick look at Wildcat and Revelate. Looks like both their bar and saddle ‘solutions’ <sigh> total ~28L so presumably you’d need to ride with a sack as well as I can’t see a frame bag adding a sensible ~10L to the total?

    @Moly. Kitting up to win a stage race is different from wobbling around in Scotland. Hardship is de reguerer when racing (apparently).

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I think the Laser is the only suitably lightweight tent, but it’s not a quick pitch. For recreational camping I’d have a tent, no question, but I think the TDR would be different. The biggest issue with tents besides the faff, for me, is the fact that I’d need to find somewhere flat. I hate being in a sloping tent, but I can manage fine bivvying on a slope.

    Anyone slept in a decent quality hooped bivi? I’d be worried about condensation, but I’d get an expensive eVent one.

    Hardship is de reguerer when racing

    Nah, it’ll be a cinch. I could book 3 weeks on a beach, but I reckon this’ll be even easier.

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    boblo
    Free Member

    There are some fantastic l/w tents from the US. Have a look at Big Agnes, MSR etc. Similar weight to the Laser but much quicker to pitch.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    MSR Carbon reflex 1, 1140g packed. That could be a couple of hundred grammes worth carting about.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    is it a tent or a mosquito net ?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    That’s the inner.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    The problem with hooped bivis is that you need to peg them out to keep the hoops up.

    Lots of nice tents out there, I’d not get hung up on the noisy “crisp-packet” that is the Laser.

    boblo
    Free Member

    That’s the one Moly, Big Agnes do one very similar. I bought one of their Seedhouse tents (1.4kg – real 2 person) lastyear in the US and used it for ~50 nights on the trot. Brilliant. They do a lighter version now.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    when its raining or midgies i just chuck my jacket over the opening of my bivvy (which ill be impressed if your tent weighs any where near ) and open the pit vent which gives me a mesh window to keep the air coming in and the beasties out.

    also one key thing to remember is dont just consider weight -packed volume is as/if not more important than weight

    boblo – of your 50 nights did it rain at all ? my experiance of big agnes tents in the rain has been a very wet one. designed for dry climates perhaps ?

    boblo
    Free Member

    How do you cook?

    Yes. Biblical on occasion… The nearby creek turned into a torrent + flash flood. But, agreed. The US tents are really designed for hot/dry primarily though they are waterproof. Bit chilly in UK winter with all that mesh.

    Pieface
    Full Member

    So I was liking the idea of bikepacking when it was a bit under the seat and a bit on the handlebars, but when people post pics of theri bike covered in bags / bottle holders, it does get me thinking that they’re either carrying too much or why not use panniers.

    I thought one of the things about bikepacking was that it also drove a super lightweight way of doing things.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    when im bivvying i dont – i dont even carry a stove.

    When im touring i do it in the porch of the tent – while im sitting outside , doesnt really provide much protection from rain or midgies either but preferable to blocking the only exit from my tent with flames

    boblo
    Free Member

    Do you multi day (night) bivvy?

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I’m currently using one of these small tarps with an Rab Ascent eVent bivvy bag.

    http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/tarps-and-bivy-bags/WE106-7.html

    The bag has midge netting round the U-shaped zip so it can be left open for ventilation.

    Internal condensation seems to be very much dependent on prevailing weather conditions. I’ve been completely dry inside and I’ve had damp feet .

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    i try not to , but if i have to i try and eat take away.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    So far no. But I don’t see why not. I guess there’s a sliding scale of comfort/deprivation depending on how interested you are in completing the route in a fast time (i.e. racing).

    FWIW, I like cooking and eating outdoors. It’s one of the pleasures of camping. I also don’t mind using my stove in the alcove of the tent when I’m lying inside it. It warms the tent up too!

    boblo
    Free Member

    Interesting. I only bivvy when I’m up for a bit of hardship or après pub (when I used to drink). For multi night or potentially poor conditions (weather or beasties), I camp. There’s not much in it weight wise with my kit so I usually go for the tent. I’m happy to cook zipped up as well.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I’m not sure I’d take a stove or cookable food on the TDR, just things that could be eaten cold. Depends on the distribution of eating establishments though I suppose.

    How much does your bivi weigh, trail rat? The hooped ones I looked at were about 800g.

    Marmot Home Alone bivi, with two hoops and a mesh door:

    AlexSimon
    Full Member

    I must get some bivi practice in. I keep returning to the hammock and tarp as it’s just so comfortable, roomy and versatile.

    The tarp isn’t the lightest, but it’s large enough for 2 hammocks and bikes.

    I like camping in woods anyway, so finding trees isn’t a problem, but I know there will be some trips I want to do where trees simply wont be an option.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    300 grams – if i was doing TD i wouldnt be using it.

    id be looking at an enclosed bivvy with a mesh that can be used when not in the rain – like you i wouldnt be fussed at cooking

    Aidan
    Free Member

    I’m baffled by those hooped bivis. Worst of both worlds, if you asked me.

    I’ve used my 300g bivi for well over 100 nights in England, Scotland, Wales, America, Germany, and Canada; I find the weight and volume savings very worthwhile by making the riding more enjoyable. If the weather is uncooperative, I keep riding until I can find somewhere with a little shelter to sleep.

    If I were going to be relaxing more in the evenings and thinking about cooking food etc., then I’d take a lightweight tent. The only one I’ve tried is the Laser and it’s served me well.

    Tarps and hooped bivis just seem to be less useful than either extreme. If you’re thinking of the Divide in particular, there will be lots of places where there are no trees to attach a tarp to. So you might want to take poles, in which case you might as well just take a tent.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    A tarp works well using a bike as a “pole”.

    That hooped bivy above is just a small, single-skin tent?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    That hooped bivy above is just a small, single-skin tent?

    Yep, it is.

    I’d be attracted to a non-hooped bivi but I’ve read a lot of people saying they are awful if it’s raining. Presumably it’s just like having a bag over your head isn’t it? I figured you’d need something to keep cold condensation covered fabric off your face, hence the hoop.

    I guess as above, I’d have to try it. What make is yours Aidan?

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    So – you have all the pitching issues of a tent AND the problem of condensation?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I dunno – I think the hoops would keep the tent far enough away from your body so you didn’t end up touching wet.. maybe…!

    TBH that MSR tent is look good to me currently. Either that or the other extreme, a plain bivi.

    Aidan
    Free Member

    Mine is a Terra Nova Discovery Light. I think they’re quite expensive normally, but I picked it up from a bargain bin in a high street outdoor shop.

    If you lie on your back, then you will get fabric in your face, but I sleep on my front in a bivi. If it’s raining, I zip it nearly the whole way up and turn my head to the hole. If it’s cold + wet, you’ll probably be done up like a mummy in your sleeping bag, so the bivi isn’t a lot more claustrophobic. I wouldn’t say it’s a 5* sleeping experience in those conditions, but it’s not the end of the world.

    Using the bike as a pole for a tarp is a good point. I did try that a couple of times but, since I mostly use the bivi for racing, I’m usually too tired to want to faff around with any sort of tarp pitching anyway. It could be nice for more of a touring trip, but I wouldn’t kid myself that I was saving much weight over a tent.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Thanks for that description, food for thought.

    I’m thinking rain is more likely to be an occasional rather than constant feature on the TDR.

    Some sort of mesh opening would be nice for keeping insects out.. maybe I could rig something up with a bit of mozzie netting. There’s a Rab bag that has a loop on top you can tie it up to something to keep the door open, and it has mesh in it. You could maybe tie that up to your bars if your bike’s laid down, in the absence of trees or sticks.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I agree – it’s not a weight saving thing. It’s either for flexibility of pitching or just for the added experience. There’s something nice about peeping your head out of a bivvy bag and seeing what nature is up to 🙂

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    That’s the one I have (last years model, no loop, make do with a cord and bit of velcro 😉 )

    STATO
    Free Member

    Since we are well off track from talking about bags…

    If you lie on your back, then you will get fabric in your face, but I sleep on my front in a bivi. If it’s raining, I zip it nearly the whole way up and turn my head to the hole.

    Do you lie on your front face into the hood of the sleeping bag. I ask as my 2 bivvy bags are both drawstring types, so your ‘hole’ is at your mouth assuming your lying on your back. The one time i lay on my side (with breather hole still pointing up) the bag was full of condensation in the morning.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Maybe get one of those medical oxygen masks with a tube leading outside the bag?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I have to say, all this talk of gear and especially tents is getting me all worked up.. I love tents.. 🙂

    Aidan
    Free Member

    STATO – Member
    Since we are well off track from talking about bags…

    If you lie on your back, then you will get fabric in your face, but I sleep on my front in a bivi. If it’s raining, I zip it nearly the whole way up and turn my head to the hole.
    Do you lie on your front face into the hood of the sleeping bag. I ask as my 2 bivvy bags are both drawstring types, so your ‘hole’ is at your mouth assuming your lying on your back. The one time i lay on my side (with breather hole still pointing up) the bag was full of condensation in the morning.

    Yeah, apologies for taking it off the original topic, but the OP is still with us so maybe it’s OK.

    The zip on my bivi goes up the side anyway, so the breathing hole is naturally on the side. If I’m going to roll over during the night, I roll the bivi and the sleeping bag with me to keep the breathing space where I need it. Having the bivi bag upside down or sideways doesn’t really make any difference (at least with my one) since it’s waterproof all-round anyway.

    I guess there might be an issue depending on how you use your sleeping mat. But, unless it’s winter, I use MTFU instead of a sleeping mat anyway.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    So does it get damp inside those bags? If you can vent your breathing? I’m a fairly warm sleeper (and a fat bastard by your standards) and get pretty sweaty after riding. For 300g and a smaller chance of rain I am now beginning to favour a plain bivi.

    As for being OT I’m doing a lot of thinking about TDR currently since I might have a chance to do next year’s, so it’s all good. I didn’t take part in the long bikepacking thread from a while back.

    Re rolling over with the sleeping/bivi bag – besides the silly light bag I have that has no stuffing underneath (400g 0C rated, no mummy hood) I also have another bag that is understuffed on the bottom. Had it for ages before I realised that’s why my arse was always cold, as a side sleeper. So I’m now in the habit of rolling over inside the bag.

    STATO
    Free Member

    My winter bag has a baffle above the shoulders so i tend to snug that tight and leave the hood a bit looser along with the bivvy opening, means i can roll around inside the 2 bags leaving the opening to the top. Prevents condensation in either bag but can be cold if its windy, sometimes add a primaloft jacket as a pillow so that ends up over my head as its not a problem if that gets a bit damp.

    Would ideally like a fully enclosed deal but no ‘moisture management’ fabrics work for me, e-vent included.

    acehtn
    Free Member

    eat_more_cheese, i was at sourlies bothy in May.

    Guess what was outside 🙂

    A broken rack, your’s might not have died and is trying to come home, or more boring, someone else had snapped and ditched one.

    Got panniers for going down tescos, if i ever get round to bikepacking then it will be a dry bag lashed to the rack, sleeping bag lashed to the handle bars, maybe a dry bag lashed to the seat tube.
    Each to there own, from reading the topics here and bikepacking forums, it appears that for long periods of touring on fireroads and tarmac then front and rear panniers (or dare i speak it, a trailer) if i wish to go more rugged, short trips, singletrack, off road, then i would want to go light and have the bike more like a bike so slimline frame bags or lash bags into the frame.
    Both ways have merits and failings, it could be that the more extreme end of “ultra light bikepacking” is more in vogue than “touring with panniers”

    So far i haven’t seen a in the wild ultra light bikepacking set up on my travels, apart from the bloke who rode into SSEC2010 and used a bivi bag.
    I have only seen variations of panniers and trailers.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Well, racks have been around a while, and get heavily loaded up, so you’d have thought I’d be able to find one that won’t break. Especially since they’re designed for 25-35kg, and I’ll be putting much less than that in. I reckon 5kg of kit at most, 10l of water at most during desert legs, and I fancy putting food in a bar bag.

    Incidentally, I reckon I’d want to take loads of water on the desert bits, and I can’t see where the frame/saddle/bar bag people have put it all. Unless they are carrying a lot less than I’d imagine needing.

    I considered trailers, but I reckon the extra wheel would drag after 2,800 miles and I belive there is SOME singletrack to do, if not very much.

    I’m wondering.. maybe I can design a 20l or so bag that attaches to a rack top and seatpost (avoiding clearance issues) but I could give it a couple of shoulder straps in case the rack breaks…

    colonelwax
    Free Member

    I’m wondering.. maybe I can design a 20l or so bag that attaches to a rack top and seatpost (avoiding clearance issues) but I could give it a couple of shoulder straps in case the rack breaks…

    Buy an Alpkit Gourdon and have a play, cheap enough to try it. Might be worth trying a Hunka bivi from them too to see how you get on before spending loads on a Gore/eVent one.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    It may be that with a bit of faffing and imagination you can come up with a solution that no one else has ever produced or required. As you and I have already said on this thread, you really need to get out there and try some existing stuff before trying to re-invent the wheel. Personally, I reckon success at something like the TDR (and I mean even just completing it) has a lot less to do with kit and a lot more to do with the pilot, both physically and psychologically. The BB200 is in October, why not enter that as a starting point?

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 171 total)

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