to be fair Tony didn’t actually do that himself though

I’m pretty sure we would have if given the chance (or offered money), he seems happy to do absolutely anything for money.

I believe an invading/occupying force has responsibility to offer protection/security to the civilian population under the Geneva convention – so even if it was just through negligence the blood is still on our/his hands.

I like an internet argument as much as anyone but I can’t put much effort into deciding which of 2 total **** is the ****iest.

I believe an invading/occupying force has responsibility to offer protection/security to the civilian population under the Geneva convention – so even if it was just through negligence the blood is still on our/his hands.

But hes the Middle Easts Envoy for Peace dude..

Shows how seriously he tales his role…even after invading and killing them he is still caring and making things better.

Grum – Yeah but Tony and GW assumed they’d be showered in flowr petals and carried aloft by the grateful masses freed from their tyrranical ruler to sell oil cheaply to the US and us. They were fully convinced that their threadbare plans for a new administration would succeed. Once they realised they’d unleashed 30 years of simmering sectarian hatred and were really powerless to do anything about it, without declaring war (again) on the populace, they were already fecked. Hubris, vanity and incompetence? yes, calculation? no.

(well apart from the lying to make the case for war, yeah that was calculated and probably a war crime of sorts (IANAL))

Thatcher
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8rSc68lVY[/video]

Not really any point in hating either of them. They’re both truly vile sociopaths in their own ways, but one’s dead, and the other one’s oblivious to anything other than himself and all his dodgy acquired cash. They’ve done their plentiful (and in the case of Thatcher malicious) damage and moved on

If you want someone who’s presently truly deserving of your vitriolic loathing, take your pick…..

Theres a good few candidates there

And I was SO looking forward, in the eighties, to being told what to do by Arthur “Combover” Scargill and Mick “NeedsTheOpticians” McGahey…

Yes, she RUINED it all. 😥

Never had hague down as a centre forward. and I’m surpirised Ken’s not on the left wing.

Hahahaha – Jeeez i crack myself up.

Are you here all week? 😉

Sadly, probably, yes.

I’d bet it if you asked 100 people in the street you have a 100% inverse correlation between who they’d pick and who’ll they’ll vote for next year.

For me it’s Thatcher, I see the legacy of her failings every day even now 25 years later, the huge swathes of multi-generational unemployment a few miles from my door, the every increasing energy costs, the housing market that servers her generation and none other – she sold the family silver for short term gain – Sid might have made a few quid on British Gas, but it’s his kids who are paying the bills now and his parents who have to decide if they want to eat or turn on the heating this week.

Blair, who was, far, far from perfect – but his greatest failing of course was going to war – but let’s not forget they the government as a whole voted for it and whilst he’s a pariah because we lost 179 of ‘our boys’ in Iraq, Maggie was loved for losing 258 in the Falklands.

Anyone who thinks Blair is worse than Thatcher isn’t a) working class or, b) a Northener. IMHO of course.

Having said that, this current crop of Tories (with one or two notable exceptions)are more right wing than Thatcher in most respects ……

Anyone who thinks Blair is worse than Thatcher isn’t a) working class or, b) a Northener. IMHO of course.

Yes because one had a Barrister as a Father and the other a Greengrocer.

Hating a person (especially dead ones) is pretty unpleasant IMO.

I hated and liked some other their policies – although in the case of Thatcher, her contribution (good and bad) was much less that is made out, since Thathcherism was largely a myth used by both sides. But Blair’s contributions are overshadowed by the prosecution of an illegal war and his subsequent activities – those actions are the things that I hate most. Probably an ok bloke in the flesh though.

Your photo needs updating Binners!!

Hora 😉

It’s a bit like asking who’s worse (and yes I realise that this invokes Godwins law, but it’s a perfect analogy because of their supposed leanings), Stalin or Hitler?

Let’s face it neither of them were any good for you, unless you were part of the political elite and all four had their “social engineering” agendas.

whilst he’s a pariah because we lost 179 of ‘our boys’ in Iraq

You serious?

I was thinking of the 500,000 or so Iraqis who died…

As someone who also lived through the nasty, malicious, and vindictive devastation Thatcher metered out to the community I grew up in, and plenty more in the North, she is truly deserving of every single piece of the vitriolic hatred that came her way. Along with most of the people I know; I absolutely despise her and everything she stood for. And I raised a glass when she died. The bitch!!

Blair? He’s just Thatchers creation.Her walking, breathing, money-worshiping legacy. I don’t even hate him. I just view him with utter and complete contempt. Theres a big difference

hora – Member
Yes because one had a Barrister as a Father and the other a Greengrocer

He was also a councillor, part-time Justice of the Peace, president of the Chamber of Trade, President of Rotary, a director of the Grantham Building Society, a director of the Trustee Savings Bank, chairman of the local National Savings Movement, a governor of the local boys’ and girls’ grammar schools and chairman of the Workers’ Educational Association, Chairman of the Finance and Rating Committee, Alderman and Mayor of Grantham.

And councillor, part-time Justice of the Peace, president of the Chamber of Trade, President of Rotary, a director of the Grantham Building Society, a director of the Trustee Savings Bank, chairman of the local National Savings Movement, a governor of the local boys’ and girls’ grammar schools and chairman of the Workers’ Educational Association, Chairman of the Finance and Rating Committee, Alderman and Mayor of Grantham.

A green grocers apprentice, opens own business and is firmly a member of the community and part of the community.

Where she came from – what she did in a mans world. Thats why I can’t ‘hate’ her and I come from working class roots/the north.

Anyway, I can’t defend her. Something happened to the Sikh’s even if it was just an advisor sent over.

*looking at the photo*
hmmm, has Nick Griffin snuck in at the back there? (No. 1)

Donkeys led by donkeys. When your unions, led by nitwits and Stalinist romantics, decides it’s going to take over governing the country from the elected government, on behalf of it’s “class”, guess what happens?

As opposed to ****s led by ****s?

Whatever.

Something happened to the Sikh’s even if it was just an advisor sent over.

Not sure what this is referring to- is there a bit of history I have misssed out on?

I can only speak personally, I don’t hate either, I would take Thatcher over Blair if I had to pick one to dislike more.

As I must have posted a dozen times any UK Prime Minister would have put troops into Afghanistan or Iraq, anyone daft enough to believe the “45 mins threat claim” only has themselves to blame.

Thatcher did what she had to do and was brave enough to stand by those decisions. I’m fairly sure if she’d been in power over the past eleven years, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are now.

She understood basic economics, which seems to be beyond most Politicians….basically that you can’t spend what you don’t earn and if something doesn’t make a profit, or worse loses money….you shut it down.

Harsh admittedly, but necessary.

(plus she was my Boss when I was in the Falklands and we felt backed)

anyone daft enough to believe the “45 mins threat claim” only has themselves to blame.

I don’t think anyone outside Westminster actually believed that

Rockape63 – Member

Thatcher did what she had to do and was brave enough to stand by those decisions.[/QUOTE]

Except for the ones she didn’t.

She understood basic economics

She above.

I don’t think anyone outside Westminster actually believed that

I don’t think that the people in Westminster believed it either

I’m fairly sure if she’d been in power over the past eleven years, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are now.

Oh the….

Its the economic system she ushered in, with her mate Ronnie on the other side of the atlantic, (The Big Bang – unregulated free market, red-in-tooth-and-claw Chicago School capitalism, coupled with aggressive deindustrialisation)that was, and still is, the root cause of the mess we’re presently in 🙄

Thatcher failed in all her stated aims, ie, reducing unemployment, taxation, and government spending.

And average growth in the 1980s, despite the bonanza of North Sea oil, was exactly the same as in the 1970s.

Thatcher was of course hugely successful in her unstated aims.

the root cause of the mess we’re presently in

Is, I think you’ll find, the British Politician’s love of all things Corporate and subsidised by the Free Money Tree, for example – throwing billions of taxpayer’s pounds at failed banks.

A truly free market has never been allowed, by Thatcher or anyone else.

bonanza of North Sea oil

Ahh, North Sea Oil. Apparently hardly mentioned in her memoirs even though, or probably because, it contributed to the myth she was econmically savvy.

She understood basic economics

She was a supply sider who wanted to control the supply of money
She failed in all her aims [ and she increased taxations as well FWIW] to do this but still hit her “targets” and hailed it a success.

Folk bought it because they understand nothing about economics.

Thatcher failed in all her stated aims, ie, reducing unemployment, taxation, and government spending.

Thatcher was of course hugely successful in her unstated aims.

Its got a familiar ring to it, that….

Donkeys led by donkeys. When your unions, led by nitwits and Stalinist romantics, decides it’s going to take over governing the country from the elected government, on behalf of it’s “class”, guess what happens?

I don’t think you really got Animal Farm.

I don’t think you really got Animal Farm.

There’s no donkeys in Animal Farm

The joke doesn’t work if it needs to be explained.