the memory and legacy of that era is still kicking around

It will be kicking around the NHS for some time…

A ridiculous state of affairs.

What Just5minutes said.

Agree with most of what you sat just5minutes too.

I’ve sat on all sides of the fence too (contractor, authority and funder) and it’s the same shit over and over in the UK (although just to be clear, Ireland is a breath of fresh air at times, despite it’s procurement agencies having a bit of an inferiority complex). A calamity of unsophisticated and suspicious clients with expectations that don’t reflect the market, battle weary contractors, “We are God, bow before our terms” funders with unrealistic risk profiles.

Throw in a design that doesn’t work but the client won’t move away from it because (a) they’re attached to it (b) they’ve spent a lot of money on it (c) they’ve been told it works by the people who charged them millions for it.

Then add in some authority advisers who are on a shit, capped rate…so when things get complicated they’re not massively enthusiastic about rolling their sleeves up and sticking down loads of time that they’ll not be able to bill. Give them standard form that is complete garbage, then spend millions of £s and hours trying to make it work.

The client will then avoid any real discussion about how what they want won’t work because they’re terrified of breaching the regs and being challenged when they award the contract.

Then, just to make it all this even worse, add in IUK/SFT/other agencies who all think standard form does work and doesn’t need to be amended because it’s already “been banked” (despite the fact that it was banked pre 2008 when the banks didn’t really give a toss what they were lending on), continually telling the client that they can’t accept half of the bidder amendments that are needed to make the bloody thing work.

Once you hit financial close, the advisers drop away and the unsophisticated client is left holding the baby, then real fun begins and continues for 25+ years. 😐

Give me a UAE or African deal any day of the week.

How long and how much do you guys think it’ll take to separate Scotland from England if We Eck gets his way?
MrsT has an interest in this 🙄

Well this is interesting. I come on and have a bit of a rant, and everyone else agrees and expands on it. Seems the problems are readily apparent.

I reckon if the Govt were to double what they pay their techies, PMs and BAs they’d end up saving a shedload.

Binners – The public sector – Too much authority with too little accountability.

Last I heard contract negotiations had been outsourced to Serco.

The public sector – Too much authority with too little accountability full of seconded big group accountants and management consultants

Fixed, no [upfront] charge.

I reckon if the Govt were to double what they pay their techies, PMs and BAs they’d end up saving a shedload.

The problem is with the senior leadership, not the people on the ground IME.

I currently work in the NHS after the best part of 30 years in the private sector.

While I’ve worked with many poor quality Managers over the years, most were at more junior levels in the private sector – here they seem to sit higher up the ‘food chain’…

Pieface – Member

None of this is exclusive to the public sector.

Absolutely this- every organisation I’ve worked in whether it’s public or private has had the same fundamental problems. The differences are generally ones of scale, and accountability- ie, it’s our money, not a shareholders. But the entire path to failure is the same, right down to the refusal to accept there’s even a problem (battling our last massive IT failure while reading top management reports about how it’d been “launched succesfully”- because the useless mis-specced unfit for purpose piece of crap had indeed launched succesfully, they just didn’t mention that it was useless.)