Which Shimano (or other) shifter do I do need for a rapid rise mech (XT)

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Which Shimano (or other) shifter do I do need for a rapid rise mech (XT)

17 posts & 6 voices | Started 1 year ago by Trail-Blazer | Latest reply from Trail-Blazer

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Trail-Blazer - Member

I had a single speed 29er which I swapped over to 1-9 gearing. I got an XT Mech for a good price in the classifieds then teamed it with a Deore shifter which was sat in my toolbox.

I never even thought about the XT being rapid rise until I started pushing the shifter and realising it was doing the opposite of what the gears on my other bike would do. I just can't get used to doing things back to front so I need a 9 speed shifter which is designed for use with a rapid rise mech.

Which shifter would I need?

Thanks chaps.

Posted 1 year ago #
momo - Member

Rapid rise mechs work the other way round to normal mechs, it's all down to the spring in the mech. There is no shifter that will 'correct' it to work like a normal mech.

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

I know the rapid rise mechs spring pushes towards the bigger rings but I'm sure there must be shifters that are designed for use with these systems. When I push the shifter on one bike, it shifts up but on the other it shifts down and I can't get used to it.

The way the cable is routed/sprung inside the shifter determines whether the cable is pulled or released. It's hard to explain what i mean without an illustration but on the deore shifter the cable is below the cetral pivot so pushing the shifter pulls on the cable. If the cable was above the central pivot but sprung the opposite way a push would have the opposite effect. (this sounds crazy doesn't it?)

I have another bike in the loft (in bits)which has XT mech and shifters but I'm not mad about climbing up there to see how that bike bike shifts in comparison to my LX bike or my Deore/XT rapid mutant.

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

Been up in the loft... To try the bike up there which has XT mech and shifters. When I push the shifter on the bike in the loft it pushes the mech inwards towards the larger rings.

The Deore/XT bike down here does the opposite (a push pulls the mech back down the smaller rings.

This can only mean one thing IMO - the Deore shifter is sprung/routed the opposite way around (clockwise - anti clockwise)so a pull on one is the same as a push on the other.

Does anyone get what I'm saying. I have NOT lost the plot.

Posted 1 year ago #
jasonm945 - Member

There are no "rapid rise" shifters so if you want "normal" shifting you'll need a new rear mech!

Jay

Posted 1 year ago #
njee20 - Member

It's not the shifter that's sprung differently, it's the mech.

Normal mech with no cable: mech drops to smallest sprocket
Rapid rise (low normal) mech with no cable: mech goes to largest sprocket.

RR mechs use the spring to go up the block, hence 'rapid rise'.

Learn to live with it, or new mech.

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

There are no "rapid rise" shifters so if you want "normal" shifting you'll need a new rear mech!

Jay

Yeah, I thought that but the XT bike in the loft shifts in the same way as my LX bike and it can only be because of the shifter. I'm going to drag it down and have a look at the guts inside the shifter as it's too dark to do anything up there.

Maybe the bike in the loft is XT/XT but not rapid rise - maybe that's it.

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

Learn to live with it, or new mech.

The bike shifts well and if I only rode that one I'd be fine with it as that's what I'd be used to but it's jumping on one which shifts one way then jumping on another, that shifts the other way is what bugs me.

A new mech does seem sensible - I don't remember this one being listed as rapid rise when I bought it.

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

At least I didn't install anything incorrectly which was my first thought. It looks like I'll just have to live with it for the time being but I rely on instinct and don't like to think too much about shifting so I know there'll be lots more D'OH! moments to come.

Posted 1 year ago #
njee20 - Member

Indeed, I'd be selling the mech on pretty sharpish, 2 bikes that shift differently's a real headache IME!

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

Thanks for the help guys and for putting up with such ignorance. I'd never had a rapid rise mech before and I never read up on the differences. I do know now, though.

I'll still press on with my new shifter design which means a rapid rise mech can downshift by pushing, not pulling.

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

Can anyone tell the difference just by looking at one? I've been offered this XT mech cheap (rough looking but works well) but the guy doesn't know whether it's standard or rapid???

Posted 1 year ago #
bikewhisperer - Member

That's a normal one. The cable clamp is attached to the outside plate of the parallelogram.
On a rapid rise one it's on the inside plate, and the spring pulls it to the lowest sprocket when unloaded

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

.That's a normal one. The cable clamp is attached to the outside plate of the parallelogram.
On a rapid rise one it's on the inside plate, and the spring pulls it to the lowest sprocket when unloaded

Well spotted. Now I've looked at my rapid rise one, with your info, I can see the difference. I'd never have been able to tell otherwise but it seems obvious now you've educated me.

Once I Was Blind But Now I Can See

Thanks for that.

Posted 1 year ago #
DickBarton - Member

You can't shift the shifter change pattern...pushing/pulling moves the cable - pushing moves the cable tighter so shifts up )to a bigger cog on a 'normal' mech) and down (on a proper mech - RR).

Changing the push/pull won't change the way the cable moves the mech - the cable needs to get tighter to move the mech to a bigger cog (on 'normal') and smaller (on proper). When you give the cable slck (by pulling the shifter) it releases tension on the mech...if you want to redesign that, it's the mech shifting that needs to change...

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

You can't shift the shifter change pattern...pushing/pulling moves the cable - pushing moves the cable tighter so shifts up )to a bigger cog on a 'normal' mech) and down (on a proper mech - RR).

Changing the push/pull won't change the way the cable moves the mech - the cable needs to get tighter to move the mech to a bigger cog (on 'normal') and smaller (on proper). When you give the cable slck (by pulling the shifter) it releases tension on the mech...if you want to redesign that, it's the mech shifting that needs to change...

I was only kidding about the redesign. It would be like Homer Simpsons electric hammer.

Posted 1 year ago #
Trail-Blazer - Member

I used the rapid rise bike again today and I'm getting used to it. I do have to think about what I'm doing but it does shift nicely so I think I'll stick with it. Different is fun sometimes...

Posted 1 year ago #

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