I was going to buy a big stockpile of B&W film and some darkroom kit, but my fundamental lazyness has taken over. Selling some bike bits as ive torn my knee again, and currently have about £250 in cash to spend. Would rather get soemthing that won’t depreciate like a stone so I can upgrade it in a few years.

So recomend me a secondhand DSLR, I’m leaning towards a nikon D40x, but someones told me the sensor on the D40 was better as it had less pixels (and therefore each one was more sensitive) and I wouldn’t miss the extra 800 lines anyway.

Is buying off ebay a bad idea? I’m hoping as theyr not cheep that they get taken care of, is there much to go wrong? Is it worth geting one 2nd hand from a shop for quite a bit more cash but a few months peace of mind, or do they last indefinately like film cameras (my film one was my Dad’s when he was a teenager!) ?

ohh and, im currently using a 28mm and 35mm borrow a freinds 80-200mm lenses on the film SLR, would rather have one zoom lense as carrying arround a bag of them is a PITA!

Would rather get soemthing that won’t depreciate like a stone so I can upgrade it in a few years.

hmmm, in value, DSLR’s depreciate like a stone! they dont loose functionality though. my canon 10d from years ago is still going strong. lens standards are fixed for all intents… so lenses tend to keep their value much better than the bodies.

the internals of a dslr are more delicate than a fully manual slr, so may not last as long measured in decades, but as mentioned, old dslr’s are still going strong.

you may find some of the cheaper more recent ones are built down to a price in terms of their mechanical internals, so may not last as long as a well built older model.

check out canon’s ebay outlet

canon outlet

I bought a second hand D70s, a little older than the d40, and slightly less good in low light, however a otherwise better camera that will also operate the auto focus on older lenses, which the D40 cannot. Your prime lenses probably fall into this catgory.

Also it can operate off camera flashes with its pop up flash, the d40 cannot. I use this for strobist(.com) fun and games.

one single zoom lens with any decent range is going to cost a bit, >£200.

Also, ask any ebay auction you are interested in what their shutter count is, I’d leave any above 20K alone.

You can find info on shutter mean time before failures online, and how to find the shutter count for different models.

Having done a quick scour of Google Shopping I found these:

http://www.waltersphotovideo.co.uk/products/nikon-d40-18-55mm-ii-kit/1946/?source=froogle&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=comparison_shopping_feeds&utm_nooverride=1
http://www.elitegadgets.com/GB/Nikon-D40-with-18-55mm-Lens-Kit-in-Black(285).aspx?source=googlebase
http://www.purelygadgets.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=4133&wysiwyg=10

I haven’t used any of those websites so can’t vouch for their professionalism or whatever, but they do appear to be excellent value!

EDIT: looks like you’ll have to copy & paste the middle link.
2nd hand body might get you a more ‘advanced’ camera than the D40.

you can get a canon eos 400 with 2 (canon) lens and a battery grip for 389. brand new with warranty.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CANON-EOS-400D-DIGITAL-SLR-CAMERA-TWIN-LENS-KIT-400-NEW_W0QQitemZ360131508410QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN?hash=item360131508410&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1690%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

got one myself a few weeks ago, very good deal.

http://www.graysofwestminster.co.uk are superb for Nikon stuff.
I’ve had second-hand stuff from them before, indistinguishable from new. Top service as well.
Always pop in if I’m in London, the basement of the shop is stunning, like going back 100 years.

http://www.pennineonline.com/ are really decent people to deal with as well, based in Rochdale (also like going back 100 years but for different reasons 🙂
Often have decent s/h kit in.
If you go to see them, try a Large Kurdish kebab from the Kurdland Grill down the road. Apart from the Cemetary & Flying Horse pubs, they are the highlights of Rochdale for me!

20K doesnt sound like a lot? is that just the lifetime of the shutter? can it be replaced? Never even thought about replacing bits on the old camera!

With the exception of exposure everything manual on the old camera, so will be looking for new lenses as well. 18-55mm is about 28-80mm in old lenses right, probably all i’d ever use normaly and seems to be the default kit lense on most cameras?

http://www.bythom.com/ – may answer a few questions, but this is a really complex subject (sensor sizes, which lenses work with which body) etc. Definitely worth speaking to a good shop for advice.

20k is a fair bit, there are second hand cameras out there with less than 5k.

20k is not a show stopper, but once a shutter is gone, its too expensive to replace in these cheap cameras.

They reckon the 18-55 lens that comes with the 400D is pretty useless – “not up to the usual canon standard” I think its the general comments, followed by “buy the body and get a decent lens”.

I’m glad this thread has arrived as I’ve been toying with the idea of a DSLR for a year or so but dont even know where to begin TBH – there are so many reviews that drop hints in different directions, I’m not sure which lenses work with which bodies etc etc. What does really appeal is the massive DR available with the DSLR that I just cant get with my P&S even in 10bit mode, plus I seem to get a lot of noise even at low (80-100) ISO that seems to be almost totally eliminated in the hiher end cameras.

Ewok – do you have a price quote for shutter replacement?

I can recommend Ffordes as being helpful and not too pricey.

FWIW ive just spent my lunchtime reading D40/D40x reviews,

6 of one half a dozen of the other as far as i can tell, when it comes to printing the pictures are near identical in quality and go upto 10x15inch quite easily.

tempted by the D40, Think i’ll be taking lots of pics and experimenting so halving the file size is appealing!

” coffeeking – Member

Ewok – do you have a price quote for shutter replacement? “

from the topics I’ve read on talkphotography forums it seems to be £200 – £300 ish depending on camera.

Another thing in the topics, was that the shutters seemed to fail when the camera was years old with a low shutter count, or quite new with a high shutter count (some of the pros were putting 50,000 plus on in less than a year). I guess the cameras don’t like being left with very little use for years ?

Modern dSLR usually have an estimated lifespan for the shutter of approx. 100,000 actuations. Or about 300,000 for the top end pro models.

My EOS 40D has 11.5k on after 14 months

one other thing is the size of your hard disk. If you start shooting in RAW you will start filling the disk quite fast. may be worth budgeting for a removable hard drive too 😉

D40/x with an 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 AF-S DX, that’s what I bought for the wife and it is a stunning combo in comparison to my slightly more expensive D300/18-200 combo!

If you start shooting in RAW you will start filling the disk quite fast

amen to that

Interesting that one thinks of digital exposures being free, but in fact
they may cost 1/3p per shot for the shutter – and another 1/5p perhaps to back up the image.

” simonfbarnes – Member

Interesting that one thinks of digital exposures being free, but in fact
they may cost 1/3p per shot for the shutter – and another 1/5p perhaps to back up the image. “

must be costing you a fortune then, given how many shots you fire off per ride 😉

must be costing you a fortune then, given how many shots you fire off per ride

yes, it comes at at about £2 per ride :o)

8 pence per shot? pah! you digital snappers don’t know your born! 😀

does anyone do insurance against droping them?

you’re going down the route of how much a bike costs per ride now. dangerous territory

£2k bike costs £10 a ride if you use it every week for 4 years and it never goes wrong. scarey stuff

i think i’ll stick to photography 😉

pahhh, my new hardtail is currenly averaging about £100 a ride!

bought, smashed knee, got bored, re-built and pimped, ride, tear knee.

For what it’s worth I sold my old D50 with 2 lenses and a bag on for £250 which was about on the money 3 months ago. I’d try and go for the D50 upwards if you can as it opens up more possibilities of using older lenses – one of the bonuses of using Nikon over Canon is that you can use any lens from the 1960’s onwards on pretty much every DSLR except some base models (ie. the D40). This older kit is often built far better than modern plastic mounted lenses and can be had for next to nothing.

I’d also echo the fact that the life expectancy on dslr shutters should exceed 50,000 without any problems and prosumer/pro bodies are said to go 100,000+ without issues. I’ve had an Nikon F5 based Kodak DCS digital camera that had 150K+ and was still going strong.

8 pence per shot? pah! you digital snappers don’t know your born!

FYI 1/3p + 1/5p = 8/15p (or about 0.5p)

does anyone do insurance against droping them?

yes, my camera is covered all risks, and M&S confirmed that it’ll be replaced if I drop it in a river – though I did and it carried on working…

I wouldn’t worry about all this shutter life stuff. If you are really worried, then get a new camera from Jessops or somewhere and take out their extended warranty.
The cost of a new D40 with the 18-55 is ridiculously good value, when you think about what you get for your money. A riding mate of mine has recently bought a D60 from Luton airport for under £300 and from what I understand, the D40 takes pictures that are pretty much as good, if not as good. And he has got some cracking shots from that camera.

out of intrest, whats the pence per shot from darkroom developed B&W film?

cheers for the advice guys, think i’ll look at D40x ‘s on ebay with the 18-55 kit lenses and then save up for something arround 35-80mm

Not 100% it’ll work on the D40 but you can pick up a used Nikon AF-D 35-70mm f/2.8 for around £120 if you hunt about through online 2nd hand lists. It’s an older lens, since discontinued but it’s built like a tank, tack sharp and is great value for money

woffle – Member

one of the bonuses of using Nikon over Canon is that you can use any lens from the 1960’s onwards on pretty much every DSLR except some base models (ie. the D40).

Might well be true, but you’ll not get any focussing/aperture selection function from the camera. All Canon EF mount lenses work with all Canon EOS cameras and are electronic. Think they go back to the mid 80s.

AF-D won’t autofocus with D40, AF-S only as it has no motor in the body. Aperture will work and the lens will communicate with the camera and you will get full metering

You will take as good pictures as you can with any DSLR camera. Technical issues are all too easy to get hung up on. I see shutter count as something to be aware of, but not overly concerned as some go on to 75k and some fail at 15k. Luck of the draw with second hand stuff out of warranty!

I can recommend the D50 over the D40, if you are interested in prime lenses (and you should be), nikon are only just bringing out primes that auto focus on the D40, and they are much more expensive than the ones that will auto focus (if a little noisely) on the D50 (or D70, 90, 200 etc etc, not the D60 though). I had the D50 until I wanted off camera flash, the D50 is a bit better at high iso as well.

I only know of the US price for nikon replacements, that’d be around $250. Which more than likely translates directly to £!

i know a prime lense should take a better picture, but think i’ll get more from a zoom lense as it gets on my tits having to swap lenses ever few minutes.

what ever you do don’t look at the newer Tokina lenses

£1500 gets you an 11-16, 16-50 and 50-135 all f/2.8 constant

😥

I put them in the basket on a website then gave my wallet to someone else to keep

It was the lack of auto focus motor in the body that put me off the D40

Went for a Pentax in the end,had IS and anti dust gizmo with the bonus of loads of older lenses that are compatible.
Intend to use the kit lens for a while until I really know what I need and my photographic skills are honed a bit(lot)

They are currently giving 50 quid cashback on the Pentax KM although I got a different model s/hand
Unusually for a DSLR it takes AA’s which you may or may not like and apparently gets over 1000 shots from them. I prefer them for the availability and a good set of 2500 mAh cells lasts for ages

Might be worth a look here http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Canon-Outlet_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZQ2d999QQftidZ2QQtZkm.

the D40 is 242.74 on amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-D40-Digital-SLR-Camera/dp/B000KIX65S/ref=pe_13931_14851931_as_img_4/

that seems very cheap to me?!?

ohhhh, very tempting