Probably not, but most tracks arent within inches of bushes and trees due to reasons of safety. How many race tracks do you know like that?

Harewood Hill Climb and Nurburgring are two that spring immediately to mind. And almost every single rally circuit there is.

Anyway, I wouldn't exactly lose any sleep if I ran over Bright Eyes.

If you are racing, you void your insurance and are generally accepting of the fact that you will be burning up money. Unlike on a public road, generally, the only person you are putting at risk is yourself.

Not sure what that has to do with anything I have said – I don't race my car – it just has the ability to go quickly. (but not as quickly as Surf's…)

That's why we put the carseat on the smaller side!

We have a rear facing seat for our little one that takes up a lot of room (Britax Multi Tech – meant to be the safest) – stick it behind the drivers side (same side as the "smaller" folding section) and there's not quite enough legroom for the driver! It's fine on the passenger side though – unless the passenger is over 6ft.

sur – my 318d feels slow after the Golf GTi that I had before it, but I like the monthly fuel bills better now !

Iain – that engine is very very efficient isn't it?! I had a 318d M Sport courtesy car for two days – it used NO fuel (it seemed)! I found the stop start a PITA but I'm sure you get used to it.

145bhp vs nearly 200 for the GTi so definitely slower but still nippy enough for most. Mine is low to mid 30s mpg most of the time – not great for a diesel but good enough for us.

Anyway, I wouldn't exactly lose any sleep if I ran over Bright Eyes.

What about if you smashed into a family of four coming the other way and wiped them out? That used to happen once a year ish back home.

Rally circuits and the Nurberg ring don't have traffic coming the other way.

Why would I hit someone coming in the other direction unless they were on my side of the road – then it would be their fault anyway.

The Volvo V50 1.6 diesel has 170bhp i think and silly low tax in comparison, worth a butchers

The Volvo V50 1.6 diesel has 170bhp i think and silly low tax in comparison, worth a butchers

Is that a typo or a real mistake? If BMW can't get 170bhp from a 1.6 diesel then Volvo certainly can't. The 1.6 diesel V50 has 107bhp.

Subaru Outback with Boxer Diesel engine 4×4 etc

Love mine and fairly low emissions….

For all your off-road needs:

/me tries to remember where on the nurburgring that the trees and bushes are just inches from the track…

Why would I hit someone coming in the other direction unless they were on my side of the road – then it would be their fault anyway

Sometimes you can't avoid being very close to the white line, sometimes people make slight mistakes, sometimes they find themselves having to avoid an obstacle etc etc etc. Plus, and I'd have thought this was fairly obvious, it doens't matter who's in the wrong, accidents are bad for all concerned. So if you are going really fast and someone (you or them) makes a mistake, both parties ability to stop or avoid each other are far reduced, and the consequences of a crash are much worse.

I'm a bit worried that you appear to be qualified to drive and yet you need these things pointing out to you.

Just to make it clear – I am not against enjoying the roads; my point is that in any halfway nippy car the max speed you can safely obtain is so far below the driver and car's potential that it's just frustrating. Which is why I went for comfort over speed. And I think we'd be better off on the roads if we all did this.

Molgrips – I haven't advocated anything other than driving at 60mph on this thread so I remain confused as to why this is dangerous.

nothing to add other than my 993 was doing a whopping 29.8l/100km yesterday 😆 😕

MF – 60mph can be far too fast. But in any case, the point is not about how YOU drive it's about fast cars and their meaningfulness on public roads.

Mol – totally see what you are saying but if you were completely "safe" all the time you'd never exceed 30mph.

The thing about good driving is slowing down enough when you can't see ahead but going briskly when the view is clear. On the cop training I was initially surprised at how much the instructor slowed for some bends but it makes sense. Always expect a cyclist/pedestrian/tractor to be in the road and make sure you'd be able to stop in time. But if the view is clear then get some speed up. And drive defensively at all times. And use the whole road to improve your field of view. And and and blah blah blah.

NZ Col – NICE (993)!!!

MF – 60mph can be far too fast. But in any case, the point is not about how YOU drive it's about fast cars and their meaningfulness on public roads.

Agreed 60mph can be far too fast. It can also be too slow.

Mol – totally see what you are saying but if you were completely "safe" all the time you'd never exceed 30mph

That's taking my argument to extremes and you know it. There's a point where more speed reduces your safety dramatically, which is exactly what you go on to say in your post so you agree with me.

But the point is that a speed which is safe is so far below the capabilities of a fast car that fast cars become a waste – just a big ego trip – so you might as well relax and go for comfort.

That's taking my argument to extremes and you know it.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I blew my T5 up this morning as well. Sounded expensive.

Mol -surely you see the safety benefits of good acceleration, better brakes, more responsive handling, etc? A base spec mainstream car will take a HUGE amount more distance to stop than a decent quick one. The fast one will also have better tyres that grip more, more responsive suspension that will keep the car under control when swerving, etc. Something like a 911 Turbo has immense brakes and huge grip. Lesser quick cars are similar but not as extreme!

Pulling onto a busy motorway too – a slow car gives you very few options. A quick one is far safer allowing you to get up to speed much more quickly.

It's not all about ego – it's about enthusiasm and believe it or not you end up being safer. Sure there are many c0cks on the road who use their cars as some kind of ego booster but there are also plenty more who enjoy their car and are more careful about their driving.

As for comfort – again a lot of sporty cars have all the toys. I've never had a comfier car that gets you 200 miles without any sign of back ache or tiredness, all in climate controlled comfort with a good hifi to listen to .

I think your argument is flawed and the result of some odd hang up.

Col – 993 and T5 – double nice! Nearly got a 174 California but decided against it at the 11th hour. Might get one eventually though.

Too much ww round here.
I'm bringing our caravan down that Cornwall this summer. Going to put an end to all this sprited driving for a week. 😈 😉

I didn't realise anyone still opted to have company cars.

You get crucified financially unless you're doing 30k+ miles per year…

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Get off.. you just mis-interpreted me that's all!

Surf-Mat, the faster cars are safer argument is total absolute bollocks. You are just trying to justify your desires. If you WANT a fast car, fine, own up to it – don't pretend it's safer.

All cars I've driven, braking performance is always FAR better than any other aspect of performance. My diesel Ibiza could stop so fast you could feel your eyes bulging out of your sockets… made me feel a bit nauseous. And I never once had the ABS come in.

And pulling onto motorways has never been a problem even when I had a 1.1l MKII VW Polo. If you feel unsafe with less than 150bhp you're doing it wrong.

As far as I can see, having all that power and whatnot is just temptation. You don't need it – fact – and it doesn't make you safer. What'll make you safer on the roads is taking a chill pill (not literally) and relaxing.

To re-iterate – you can't properly USE a fast car on the roads, so why buy one? You're just going to be frustrated. If you're not frustrated, then you don't know how to drive 🙂

So your Ibiza brakes quicker than a 911 Turbo does it? 😆

Faster cars have BIGGER brake disks and more powerful calipers. They stop more quickly – that's is a completely obvious FACT.

So your cars brake better than they accelerate? – hmmm – that's not exactly a revelation. How stable are they? How much do they nosedive? How much control do you have under hard braking? A decent quick car WILL be more stable in an emergency. It will stop quicker and remain under much more control.

You seem to think you are some sort of special driver – what additional training have you had above the basic driving test?

You are resorting to completely daft made up BS to try and justify an argument you have completely lost.

So you don't like quick cars – fine. But why try and justify that with utter merde?

You drive a car that's meant to be "green" yet has an environmental footprint more than twice the size of a V8 Range Rover and handles like a broken shopping trolley. Methinks that proves your knowledge of cars is a little limited.

Er Mat – steady. I never said a normal car brakes faster than a sports car now did I? I'm not making up BS of any kind. I have not stated any spurious facts at all. Apart from the one about not needing a fast car – which isn't spurious.

Fast cars tempt you to go fast. Surely you have to agree with this?

If you drive your fast car in a nice relaxed way, to be safe, then why buy one and spend more on fuel?

In any case, you misunderstand (and forget earlier posts). I like driving briskly, I also like fast cars, but my point (as I keep on and on saying) is that on a public road you cannot use one to anything close to its potential – so why get one? If you are using all its power, then you are going to be going very quickly (by definition) which is often not at all safe.

Would you buy an Orange 5 to go to the shops on?

Can we get one thing straight about Priuses too? The statistic about it being less green than a Range Rover is WRONG. That is, incorrect, not factual, erroneous, WRONG. Understand?

Plus it handles quite reasonably and is a quite nice drive. Better than my Passat in fact, rolls less and turns in better.

As for my knowledge of cars – it's better than yours if you believe that crap about range rovers being greener than Priuses. If I were trying to maintain that a Prius was a super handling sports car, then I'd be wrong. It's a comfortable economical good sized car that drives quite adequately and at the time I bought it was by far the lowest emissions (CO2 and otherwise) around for its size.

If you drive your fast car in a nice relaxed way, to be safe, then why buy one and spend more on fuel?

Mine costs no more on fuel than any other equivalently-engined car around and far less then some. But when I DO want to drive in a more spirited fashion I have the power there.

MF, yours is a diesel TT? If so, then it's a good compromise, and a car I quite fancy. If not, then 36mpg isn't good fuel economy in my book 🙂

Surf-Mat,

Which T5 (I'm assuming you're talking about VW not Volvo) engine? Was that user error or a genuine breakage?

Just interested as I'm a fellow Transporter driver.

So what extra driver training have you had then?

Where is your car made? All over the World.

Are the batteries made from spring water and mung beans? No they are not. And servicing costs? Horrendous. Yes some of the Green "facts" (which actually compared the Prius to a Hummer – which is worse than an RR) have been disputed but the Prius is still not half as green as it's made out to be. So please state where I'm wrong.

And how would questioning the green credentials of a Prius mean I don't know anything about cars?

Now I think you live in the SE – yes quick cars are probably fairly pointless. But this is Cornwall – the roads are fantastic when quiet. A fun drive leaves me feeling happy. Just like a good ride or a decent surf. I've never crashed. I made sure I went way beyond the basic driving test to be a safe driver.

What commitment have you made to safety seeing as you blather on about it?

I can guarantee that a well trained person in a quick car is WAY safer than some angry rep in a base spec Ford or an old dodderer in a little Kia.

MF, yours is a diesel TT? If so, then it's a good compromise, and a car I quite fancy. If not, then 36mpg isn't good fuel economy in my book

It is the 2.0l petrol. I don't claim it is 'good' fuel economy, I said Mine costs no more on fuel than any other equivalently-engined car around and far less then some.

For example, my wife has a 2.0l petrol Mazda 3 series and can't get more than about 33mpg. I can easily get over 40mph in mine – overall it returns much better figures than the official stats suggest.

In fact, one trip to Wales last summer I did an average of around 80mph on the motorways and then had quite a bit of A-road driving to get to the trail (the new one near Betsy Coed) yet I got around 43mpg over the trip.

Miker – I think it was NZCol whose van broke not mine (nearly got one but didn't)!

My bro in law has a 130 T5 2/3 converted into a camper (windows and bed fitted along with other bits) and loves it to bits! AFAIK they are generally very reliable.

MF – our 1.3 litre 85bhp Jimny is WORSE on fuel than our 335d – LOL! 😆

Did you read the Evo write up on your car? They reckoned the FWD version is a better drivers car than the AWD one. Thought you'd like that!

Did you read the Evo write up on your car? They reckoned the FWD version is a better drivers car than the AWD one. Thought you'd like that!

Yes I have read that a few times – and it is better than the bigger-engined ones too as the weight balance is better. I keep telling my mate that (who has the V6 TTS). 🙂

Ok, so it's better than other fuel-inefficient cars. Big deal. So you're still taking a hit on fuel then as I mentioned above.

Surf mat:

What commitment have you made to safety seeing as you blather on about it?

I drive safely, and chose cars that won't tempt me to drive fast.

I can guarantee that a well trained person in a quick car is WAY safer than some angry rep in a base spec Ford or an old dodderer in a little Kia.

Fine, but what about an angry rep in a fast car?

If you thnk driving a sports car near its limit on a public road is safe, your training has been wasted. Note that a few swift corners or 70mph on an A road is NOT near the limit of a sports car.

Ok, so it's better than other fuel-inefficient cars. Big deal. So you're still taking a hit on fuel then as I mentioned above.

But as is the same with any decision you make about the car you buy, you decide what is more important to you. Fuel economy, leg room, boot space etc.

I would rather return 40mpg and drive my car than ever drive the heap of sh*t you have. But that is my choice for my reasons. You have equally valid reasons for choosing your car for your reasons.

Why drive a fast car on the limit all the time?

Having done many hours extra training I am fairly aware of a car's on- (and beyond) limit capabilities but I choose not to drive beyond them on public roads as that's just dangerous.

You can drive a quick car safely and then use the power when needed. You seem to be like some recovering alcoholic who can't go near booze in case he relapses. Just use restraint and go quickly when needed. Ever had any speeding tickets? I've never had one. My mum who drives pretty slowly has had three.

So you think you're a safe driver then? Any proof? If something goes wrong I bet you blame others? A good driver thinks what they could have done better next time. They criticize their own driving, expect others to be daft, anticipate trouble, go out of their way to be polite, get flashed and waved at for being courteous, drive with a smile and above all, learn continuously and enjoy that learning process.

Driving is fun (to some) but only if safe.

Yeah I know.

Of course.. what people don't realise is that their choice of car does not only affect them. But ho hum.. such is life.. concepts like this seem a bit beyond most people 🙂

And if you want an example of not caring about "image" I often drive Mrs Matt's blue Jimny softop around and enjoy that too. 😆

Matt, you are making LOADS of assumptions about me! Which are mostly wrong.. wait, let me double check.. yes they are in fact all wrong 🙂

If you do all the things you mention you are indeed a good driver. Having never seen you drive I cannot comment on you personally – and you can't comment on me personally either, in all fairness!

My original point way back was that driving ON the limit of a fast car is too fast to react to all the unseen things that could potentially go wrong. It doesn't seem like you do this from what you've said, which means you're quite properly driving below the limits of your car. So I am questioning the point of buying such a fast car…