Ref the post a bit further up a bike shop’s overheads / running costs are likely to be higher:

– high value stock items / stock holding cost
– large number of suppliers to deal with
– workshop tools and consumables (I know some comes back through maintenance but have you seen what a ‘facing’ tool costs!)
– waste transportation / treatment costs (chemicals etc)
– internet presence (for many)
– need for larger floorspace
– health & safety / fire risk compliance
– public and product liability insurance (when was the last time a faulty paperback put someone in a wheelchair)
– higher initial fit out cost so higher capital requirements and hence interest costs on larger debt

etc
etc

I don’t own a bike shop btw but I have dealt with the aftermath of a failed one.

And comparing internet only with a shop

warehouse in industrial estate + clever computer system + bulk purchasing vs.

nicely presented shop, attentive (hopefully) staff + mechanics etc in prime location is a vastly different model.

Surf shops seem to want to throw in a board bag as well as the leash and inevitable block of Mr.Zoggs these days.

You used to expect free grip tape with a new skate deck, snowboard shops don’t usually bother with anything, but a free service seems to be on offer every now and again.

I don’t ask for discounts at my LBS (Primera, Charminster) as they’re good guys with great mechanics who’ve always been really helpful.

i feel for LBS’s – but then i feel for absolutly every other type of ‘smaller’ independant shop…

you guys are not alone in struggling in the current climate as im sure you are aware, many smaller shops selling things with far less money across them too are also struggling financially, unfortunately that is how it is at the moment….

the thing with LBS’s is people get annoyed or cant see past that they can get things much cheaper online, and expect to get it roughly the same price in little shop – realistically that is never going to happen, due to big chains bulk buying thus enabling lower prices to the public – but people will still ask and feel they should be getting it cheaper…obviously the big chains are to blame, or even the distrubutors more so for the unfair biased price slashes for bigger bulk orders…again doesnt just happen in the bike industry..

i work within the car industry and new cars where i work have literally no money across them what so ever (and i genuinely mean this, we sometimes take a loss on each car of anything from £100 to £300 just to do a deal…..however difference being in this trade we have targets to hit and when we hit our quarterly targets we get paid a lump some, which far outweighs losing a £100 in a brand new vehicle….i dont know whether bike shops work the same with the bike brands, im guessing they dont pay up front for a load of bikes at the start of each year, so im guessing there is something similar…..

even being rock bottom and taking a loss on the new cars we still sometimes have to throw in mats/mudflaps and the likes which is another 100quid gone…..its all back end money in the NEW car trade….

if i had a decent LBS i would go, if i enjoyed browsing the bikes/accessories id make a habbit id go regularly even for tubes/lube etc etc, however most of the shops ive been into have very very very miserable staff who have no interest in making you feel welcome…if we were to do this at our place of work in the car trade, we would be in deep deep trouble and threaten the possibility of fines and even losing the franchise should enough complaints arise….however one thing that gets me, is our boss (owner of the company) would never allow this, if he saw miserable, unhelpful staff they would be in for it straight away….why is it different in a bike shop? unless the owner is the only staff of course then can do as he pleases and lose trade…..im not saying all are like this, but i often feel like they dont want my business or im just in there to look at goods and not worthy to be there….

so i do mostly buy things online, and i also enjoy receiving packages at work waiting for the postie, as it tends to brighten up my day quite a bit too… L

Loco tuning is a great example of friendly service, never met the guy, but im sure if hes as friendly and enthusiastic in person as he is over the phone/via email, im sure i would gladly use his services in person, he makes me want to go back and use him again, which i have done…thats solely down to him being nice, helpful and friendly…if he had have been a tossssa, i wouldnt go back – cheaper than mojo or not…alot of smaller businesses would gain a lot of custom just off being friendly and helpful alone…..

the guys at bikechain seem almost like the perfect friendly local bike shop, good products, nice guys, bit of a discount, personal type feeling of custom, not just a number on a receipt – shame they are about 400 miles away from though 😆 but ive gone out of my way to order a few things off there site just because im so impressed with the helpfulness and friendliness of them on here…

all in all, people haggle in whatever trade you are in….supermarkets and the likes are not fair comparison as somebody said above, its totally impractical to be price checking every single item in shop, from an apple to some shampoo…..plus you are generally talking only a few pence difference from the bigger shops….

however as tescos and the likes do teles etc now, id gladly haggle, ive done so in pc world with a laptop and saved £110 on one just by saying id seen it elsewhere in another chain up the road…they price matched….so to think its just bike shops is a bit naieve….

at the end of the day, if you dont want to discount your products – dont…you will lose more and more custom, if you offer a reasonable discount and still allow yourself some profit then it will go along way…i appreciate you cant compete with big chains, but sometimes just getting a bit of discount will help…

goes a long way….

Oscillate Wildly makes an excellent point, and this is the main reason lbs are loosing trade to the bigger chains/online shops. Most shops show flexibility on price but if you don’t get the service right, people don’t go back.

I can’t tell you how many shops in the North West i’ve been in once because the service has been s**t. The bike shop i use now (Stif) is 1hr away but i use it because the service i recieve is first rate, to back this up even the wife likes it as the staff talk to her in a proper way, without being patronising when she gets birthday/christmas stuff, she’s gotten stuff there for the last two years running because of it bearing no attention whatsoever to pricing.

I will also agree that places like Loco/Thebikechain/2pure et al all seem to be excellent at talking to people and providing a service that people appreciate, these people will succseed.

I stopped at the bottom of page one but this kinda struck me:

I never understand why anyone would buy any big ticket item without trying to get a discount.

One answer strike me up, and it’s: maybe because they understand LBS aren’t banks and they can’t make money up?
What surprises me the most is that people asking for discount in LBS NEVER ask discount at tesco’s. Even though you spend thousands of pounds a year there and the margin are way above LBS standard margin.

Now back to read the full thread

I stopped at the bottom of page one but this kinda struck me:

I never understand why anyone would buy any big ticket item without trying to get a discount.

One answer strike me up, and it’s: maybe because they understand LBS aren’t banks and they can’t make money up?
What surprises me the most is that people asking for discount in LBS NEVER ask discount at tesco’s. Even though you spend thousands of pounds a year there and the margin are way above LBS standard margin.

Now back to read the full thread

im sorry but its not comparable in the slighest, and actually untrue anyways…

most supermarket items are discounted already from the RRP are they not? you know the huge crate of beer offers they do for example??!?!?! this is under the RRP and discounted already, you wouldnt then go and ask for further discount, and also go through each item in your shopping and ask for a discount would you?!?!?! time consuming and physically impossible! and if you look at your receipt at the end of the shop, it usually tells you the amount saved money wise, which is usually about 10%, so its totally untrue to suggest that supermarkets dont discount, or suggest you should haggle on a already discounted products…

im only talking about bikes that are RRP and items in the shops that are advertised RRP – people will want discount from them, not discount ontop of a discount already….

This Tesco analogy is one of the stupidest things I have seen on this forum.

What surprises me the most is that people asking for discount in LBS NEVER ask discount at tesco’s.

That really surprises you does it? REALLY? You are actually surprised that people don’t ask for a discount in tesco? REALLY?

Sheesh.

its a really stupid statement in itself, let alone the fact that you get some really good offers in tescos, that are way under the RRP’s…crates of beer is a classic example…so not only is it a totally stupid comparison its also not true.

I think you’d be surprised by the margin that Tesco and other supermarkets make.

According to their 2010 statement, they made sales of £56Bn; £4.6Bn GROSS profit (8%) and their nett profit after admin expenses, taxation, etc. was £2.3Bn (4%)

They rely on huge turnover so that even though the profit % is small it’s still a big number. Hence why the battle to get people through the doors is so high.

According to a 2007 article in the Guardian when Mike Ashley / Sport Direct were looking to take Evan’s over, they posted operating profits of £970K from sales of £25M = 4%.

[edit]

sorry – last bit of my post went missing.

The point is that to make the same end margin, Tesco run a shop with maybe a few dozen staff but turning over god knows what every day. The LBS probably turns over very little in copmarison, hence their costs as a fraction of sales are far higher and hence the gross profit has to be higher than Tesco’s 8%

Whereas the online retailer…… one location, relatively few staff.

You pay your money, you take your choice.

What surprises me is that some people think 40% is a ridiculous amount of profit.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me considering they need to pay rent, bills and wages.

Think I’ve only asked for a discount on full bikes, forks and wheels. Otherwise I ask “how much for X item” and let them give me a price.

Well I don’t think the tesco analogy is stupid, I think it’s quite clever. Last time I checked I got some offers (that you probably get in any LBS for end of lines) but NO discount (no really no discount). None nada rien… There is actually no such thing as RPP in super market do you have ever seen a RPP price (I am talking groceries not books or CD’s) like for example on the bag of crisps? Do you see the RRP price of a mars bar during the mars bar advert on TV?
Margins for supermarket are huge. This is due to the way they pay for their products. Your LBS buy 10 or 15 bikes it has to pay them 90 days end of month (actually more like 40 nowadays) supermarket buys several tonnes of fruits or vegs and have almost one year to pay for them. What do you think happen to the money in between? Plus lets face it, CRC sells you stuff they are not allowed to sell. OEM are not for sell. They are for fitting on a a new bike.
But put aside that. Why would someone ask for a discount. If the said price of something is X well pay X end of I don’t get the discount thing. However I like dezb attitude to buy second end in order not ot pay the VAT. Devilish but I like.

I haven’t read all of the above, I know I should before I comment but I haven’t time, so here go’s.

I needed a front mech last weekend & needed to fit it before a planned ride on monday, no problem I thought, I’ll just go to my LBS on my way home from work on saturday. Trouble was I got caught at work & couldn’t get to the shop in time, so that left me with sunday to buy & fit said item, well that left Halfords, so I checked on-line & toddled off to the nearest one that was showing stock. So anyway after I got there & they didn’t have stock then what did I do? That’s right went to the next nearest branch that had stock, but this time they had it, so I gladly handed over my £50 for something I knew I could get on-line for £30, but you know what? I needed it, so I didn’t particularly care about the money, I just wanted it there & then.

If ‘real’ LBS’s based their business model on price matching then I’m quite sure there wouldn’t be any left, I mean why pay the overheads?

So as much as we moan & bitch, at the end of the day we need them, so why not pay a few quid more & support them the rest of the time rather than just using them when it suits you?

Cheers.

If I’m buying a new bike then I’d have no qualms asking what their best price is. I won’t be offended if its list/ticket price (but then you shouldn’t be offended if I don’t close the deal there and then and shop around to see if I can get a better deal). Service matters, if you actually get it – as do things like being able to try before you buy etc. I don’t think a lot of LBS are very good at presenting their value proposition over the internet.

For small parts etc I wouldn’t even think of asking, and don’t mind paying a bit more than web price if it is in stock and available immediately.

I’ve been given discount on bits and pieces without asking for it (a bizzare practice, which might engender some loyalty but can’t be good for the bottom line). I think part of the problem here is LBS staff/owners aren’t thinking like a business. It sounds like its maybe the same with negotiating deals with suppliers – if they won’t give you the margin you need – can you afford to stock / offer that item? It would probably help avoid competition with the guy down the road if you weren’t all stocking the same 3 or 4 brands anyway! The rumours on the net that some shops give 10% to anyone that asks, or that some shops will give regulars a discount (so as a non-regular my business is not important?) – can’t help the industry but probably also suggest that these guys aren’t operating particularly commercially.

If the idea is to engender loyalty then a “discount card” might be a better idea. I buy a bike from you, you give me card which entitles me to (e.g.) 10% discount on all purchases (including or excluding new bikes depending what you can afford / are trying to achieve etc), service etc for a year (or two). And possibly is renewed after that based on usage. The alternative is something more like a tesco clubcard where sales accumulate to vouchers for future use and/or discount off very specific items (e.g. the stuff you can negotiate a better deal on from your wholesaler!, a service during your “quietest” month) or deals with “partners” e.g. money off a skills course, bike holiday etc.

Why would someone ask for a discount

Presumably because they think they might get one?

theyre good ideas poly…some im looking at implementing shortly….thanks for all the ideas/suggestions 😀

i thought it was quite funny the other week, i had my bike in at the lbs to get the wheels sorted, £40 + £5 tub off lub, the look of the guys face when i told him to keep the change was priceless, clearly not the type of thing he’s used to, but he did a good job and did it quick so i was happy enough to offer a tip!

ziggy – Member

I honestly thought you were being serious with all of your quotes.

😆

Just being argumentative, especially when I was told that 30-40% margin was a thing of the past, and almost immediately figures were supplied by the shop owners themselves which showed 40% margins are still alive and well, albeit on tubes. 🙄

Tbh, I do get a little irritated with shop owners coming on here and complaining that customers dare to ask for a better deal, as the shop owners seem to do fairly regularly. And complaining about the costs of running a LBS is ludicrous – nobody forced you to set up, but just bear in mind that you are selling luxury goods in a market that is doing well at the moment. God help you when cycling becomes unpopular again!

Of course people will ask for a better price when they can get the same goods cheaper whether that’s in the shop down the road, Tesco, or on the net. That’s the answer to the OP.

Ask for discount in Tesco, asda etc?
No need! they have staff, money etc and doing it for you! checking each other prices so they can be cheaper, how many ads are on TV say one is cheaper than the other, refund the differnce if found cheaper else where, etc.

LBS don’t have the time or money to go checking other prices.
Also a lot of internet places have cheap prices but funny how they “just sold out, it be in next week” when you want it.

Or the
Rider “how much for this” say point to a wheel set”
Shop, “they £645 for the set”
Rider “oh I seen them for £560 off the net”
Shop “Thats a good price, can’t match that, you better off getting them of the net”
Rider “yes, but the out of stock and not getting anymore in”
Shop …..Just shakes head…….

The last time I went to my LBS I was getting a wheel built. I went along with my old wheel and asked if they would fit the cassette and rotor for me. ‘No problem’ they said and they wouldn’t take any money for it either. I know it’s only a five minute job but I’m sure other places would charge so there’s no way I would ask for a discount there.

However, I find with some of the bigger chains that they can be a bit arsey sometimes and don’t often know their stuff. They may give you bad advice or tell you the obvious so I would consider asking for a discount at such a shop if I was making a big purchase.

Everybody has a built in “rulebook” and everybody’s “rulebook” is different. Personally if I spend more than £500 on one item, I always ask what discount they will give me for buying there and then. The truth is I am going to buy the said product, so it doesn’t matter if I get a discount or not. I have gotten discounts on furniture, technology, bikes, holidays etc. However I don’t always get a discount but that doesn’t stop me asking. If you don’t ask you don’t get. I never ask for a discount unless I am going to buy there and then! What really amazes me though, is when I ask for a discount, I either get one or I don’t but no retailer ever offers me an alternative……….

As somebody as already mentioned retailers need to think like business people. When somebody spends a £1000 on a bike, rather than give them £100 discount, offer them a £100’s worth of accessories. The customer still feels like they are getting a deal (and saving a £100) but there are 2 benefits to the retailer
a) The retailer is giving away accessories worth £100 that only cost them say £70. So the retailer is making £30 more profit than they would have done had they just given 10% discount.
b) The retailer is supplying more accessories, which means they are buying more accessories from the distributor and therefore at some stage they may be able to negotiate a bigger discount from the said supplier/distributor. Imagine if you gave a helmet away with each bike purchase. How many would you shift in a year?

The other question that retailers need to ask themselves is “Why is the customer here, if as they claim, they can get a better deal online or at another lbs?” If the deal down the road was so good, why is the customer standing infront of you? Qualify the customers, their needs and what they want to achieve. Don’t be afraid to ask the customer questions. Does the customer need the product now? Does the other retailer have the part in stock?

Asking the right questions, will also allow you to give the customer good feedback and good customer service.

I haven’t read any of the above but if you lbs owners expect me not to haggle you are deluded. Bike parts are just a commodity and you simply can’t add enough value with ‘service’ to justify the price differential to online.

My lbs told me when I think of buying online give them a shout to see if they could match it. I got a king headset for about sixty and he said I can’t match but ill fit it for ninety , he knows I have a headset press I bought it there ??? Madness lol.

Still certain things I buy online and certain things I prefer the lbs even if its more money. And I don’t mind paying extra if I need it in a hurry as the extra price is worth paying as It’s in your hand right away. Even more so now the the big chains seem a little slower with the post than in previous years

Even more so now the the big chains seem a little slower with the post than in previous years

which will help good lbs’s

Just to let you know what profit margin LBS’ general run on, it’s half of Tesco’s!

Approximate net profit margin for LBS’ in the Uk is basically teh same as the U.S. which is damn as near it 2%.

gross profit is completely different to net profit. Staff in the bike trade aren’t that well paid, way below national average salary even for a very good tech.