Bit of a work quandary this. There are two of us vy-ing(?) for the same currently senior position. I’m easily qualified and experienced for it, the other chap is not, is very junior, has been called out for being lazy, yet politically already sits in the directorate where the role will be – I don’t.

Now, over the last few weeks we’ve both had to work long hours an weekends, but in the background, he’s been asking me for advice and help, and in the interest of the company’s success I’ve done a fair bit extra to assist him, and have done some direct work for him, on top of my own to ensure our mutual deadline is met.

Thing is, he’s been congratrulated or “his” additional efforts and timelyness on two conference calls now, which I’ve been party to and he’s not once mentioned my assistance, but has assumed all the credit.

Now, in a slight rant moment I had this discussion with a senior guy yesterday. Thing is, its not like me to blow my own trumpet, and I feel a bit of an ass / grass for doing so.

Was I right or wrong – and what the correct way of going about things?

Sometimes you have to, it did John Holmes no harm.

i can’t blow my own trumpet, too many ribs

Only after extensive pilates classes.

More seriously, if he’s taking the credit for your work or at least not giving shared credit then completely fair enough to set the record straight.

What you did sounds fair enough to me. You’re clearly someone who doesn’t blow his own trumpet under normal circumstances, and it looks to me like this is one time when you’ve earned the right to do so. Good luck.

There is a time and a place to bite your tounge. This sounds like its gone beyond that so I say every man for himself. If its not your usual way it will carry more weight. The other way to do it is to make sure you let him do his own work. Things will become obvious to all who is doing the work.

Did he ask you for ehlp by email? Do you have any kind of record of it? Might be better to approach it in a “Provided assistance to other members of staff to allow them, and therefore the company to acheive… blah blah”

You’re right, and have every right to, just be careful how you do it. Offices I’ve worked in competence doesn’t seem to be the desired quality when looking for promotion candidates. Problem is when ever you start wroding it like that, it sounds bitter etc.

if you help him and get no credit and you are going for the same job, and you really want it, stop helping him

Its dog eat dog and he has shown that he will exploit your talents and effort without giving you the rewards/credit or thanks for this

You did the right thing initially now they have to reap what they sow.

IME; keep dignity at all times; especially in such situations.

Obviously your own company/staff set-up and dynamics call for their own consideration, but those that wing it often get found out, but equally can get the promotion…

Thing is, there’s nothing you can really do, other than maintain your own consitency and demeanour – Upper echalants are not going to be swayed by someone calling out someone else for inefficiency, they will either know that already, or not care because of other factors.

*A little something I knocked up* 🙂

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating, and yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream – and not make dreams your master; If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to broken, And stoop and build ’em up with wornout tools,

If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with kings – nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much,

If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run – Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And – which is more – you’ll be a Man my son

unklehomered – Member
Offices I’ve worked in competence doesn’t seem to be the desired quality when looking for promotion candidates. Problem is when ever you start wroding it like that, it sounds bitter etc.

Spot on, and a big part of this issue.

What you need to realise is that promotion to senior positions isn’t just about your skill and dedication to doing the job at hand. It’s about being able to play the company politics game. Many see this as a negative thing, but the truth is that no company exists in isolation and senior management are therefore also looking to employees with the “people” skills to deal with their customers, suppliers, contractor, competitors, the media, the community etc. What your colleague is showing is that he has already developed some of these (e.g. he got you to do some of his work). What you are doing by having an unscheduled/uncharacteristic “rant” moment with a senior colleagues is that you have yet to develop them.

So – you need to decide where your career is going. If you want to get into a promoted position, learn the people/politic skills. If you don’t, then consider how you can progress without that option. That may well be in another organisation.

if you help him and get no credit and you are going for the same job, and you really want it, stop helping him

Its dog eat dog and he has shown that he will exploit your talents and effort without giving you the rewards/credit or thanks for this

You did the right thing initially now they have to reap what they sow.

Junkyard, I agree but to have let him ail would have been to have lost a big value deal for the company, which would relect on all of us. By not helping him, the impact is potentially very negative. My hope is that I can get some recognition or the fact he couldnt really have done this without my help – but how do I get this through to those who matter/do I know its getting through?

DruidH – slightly hurtul but actually true, I’m useless at / don’t like comapny politics and that isn’t helping me….

Don’t make it sound bitter – always be positive about things. So next conference call, get in there first… “XXX and I have put together this reet good piece of work and won the company loads of work” type of thing. Take some credit as part of the team or even go a bit further: “XXX has been a great help to me on the last piece of work – couldn’t of done it without him”. Your colleague will love the praise, but you’ve already swung it around so that it looks like you led things and he was helping you – win/win 😀

Always keep smiling – one likes a bitter whinge, no matter how justified they are 😆

It’s important to be honest with yourself when thinking about workplace stuff.

You call the other guy “lazy”, but do you just not like him? Are you really a paragon of virtue? How much time do you really fritter away each day on STW (for example)?

Obvious solution to your issue would be to mention in interview how you’ve been mentoring and supporting the other guy when he has struggled.

Sorry 😳 I wasn’t meaning to take a pot-shot at you personally but it seems that lots of folk just can’t grasp the distinction. Without blowing my own trumpet (see what I did there?) I found I could do either role. I was lucky enough to work for a couple of employers who recognised the value in promoted technical roles so I was able to duck out of the senior management stream and revel in being an über-techy. That’s why I’m suggesting you might want to look around for that. The other option is to persuade your current management that there is value in that role where you are. Sometimes, simply threatening to leave the company can influence that descision.

Druidh – that is bang on the money.

Basically he’s ahead of you now. If you want to get back into pole position you need to work out a way to help him but ensure you shine more brightly. Senior management roles are 10% knowledge, 10% competency and 80% personality skills.

Its OK druidH i’m not offended, its true. FWIW I’m already an individual Uber techy having left (successful) middle management behind. The new role is likely to be managing a bunch of people like me (and him, including him i he keeps his job).

chakaping – My very presence on hear now means I’m not a paragon of virtue, and it does extend my working duration from 7hrs to 10hrs working day but thats my choice. He’s been called out as lazy by others, not me. He’s pretty much been caught sleeping on the patio at home waiting for phone calls. As much as I post on here, I am actually working at the same time, and have recently been working weekends and 15 hours days for 15 days in a row now, with the exception of last Sunday and last night

I guess the other thing that “bites” is that as I settled into “kids” at home, others at my level have moved / promoted above me and I’m on catchup – as much as reading Dr steve peters book tells me I should “accept” the compromise I made and be happy with the outcome, watching others (some I actually mentored and managed) move upwards is difficult.

Maybe I’m just being insecure?

yossarian – Member
Druidh – that is bang on the money.

Basically he’s ahead of you now.

Not i others know the situation, but I don’t know that they do, you see…?

Senior management roles are 10% knowledge, 10% competency and 80% personality skills.

= unctuous charm

Druidh +2
It’s all about owning the triumphs, avoiding the failures and not be seen as doing all the donkey work. He’s made that impression already. Why would they promote somebody who has excelled at the legwork?

you need good workers, the others tend to drift to management 😉

Genuine question – what if there is no “upwards” for anyone not interested in/capable of doing the politics thing? If you’ve already decided you don’t want that then let it go – you aren’t in competition with folk that do.

There’s also the chance that you are too valuable in your current role for them to move you out of it, even if that is upwards.
Whereas this rival doesn’t appear to be as competent at the current role, but has the ability to get results by using others’ skills, ie yours.

I apologise if I’m not helping, but it’s not usually the employee that’s “best at his current job” that will get the promotion. It can often be the one they can afford to “lose” from their present role.

Going back to your original question, it sounds like you’ve nothing to lose from a little more self-promotion. You’ve got the skills to back it up, and you don’t sound like you’ve pushed yourself forward as much as others around you. Just remember not to overdo it, self praise is nothing compared to praise from a colleague.

I can’t tell what it is that you want.
Do you want the promotion? Do you want recognition for your work?
Yes, these are both nice things, but you’re letting them both be taken away from you very easily.
You’ve got to get riled up, you’ve got to want it so badly that ‘blowing your own trumpet’ becomes a meek footnote in the history of your (soon to be) awesome career.
You can start with mild social manipulation, before you know it you’ll be a fully blown sociopathic VP.

loum – Member
There’s also the chance that you are too valuable in your current role for them to move you out of it, even if that is upwards.

This has been admitted to me to be the case by my old boss. My new boss told me he wouldn’t do it but… (see below…)

scuzz – Member
I can’t tell what it is that you want.
Do you want the promotion? Do you want recognition for your work?

Good question. I’m currently one of 26 people in a 4000 employee business that hasn’t and is being hassled to complete my career development plan.

I guess I want the recognition, and I want the senority to do what I’m doing outside my comfort zone with a broader portolio – ie a technical and pressure related challenge. I don’t want, and probably won’t every be as DruidH suggests an ass licking Director on my way to the top.

Incidently if you’ve ever read Steve Jobs Biography, Steve Wozniaks example is spot on, although he was able to make the choice easier than I seem to be comfortable with – aka not being an Apple Director. (I’m not by any means suggesting I’m on par with SW technically of course…)

Will there be interviews? (Haven’t read the whole thread).

Every time it’s appropriate to give an example of your skills, tell then about the time you helped junior man with this, that and the other?

Maybe that’s bad form though, if not done subtly and innocently.

In my experience, that never happens. You look at the next position in the hierarchy and think they have more power/control to “do the right thing” than you currently have. Then you get there and discover that position is also subordinate to someone else and the cycle starts again.

Oh – and I’m not calling anyone that goes into senior management an “ass-licker”. It’s a different skill-set is all.

FWIW, there was a point when I recognised I didn’t have a career, I had a job. My goal was then to do that job as well as I could. It’s very liberating.

You should try some coaching. That might help you set goals and recognise what is stopping you from achieving them.

Thing is, he’s been congratrulated or “his” additional efforts and timelyness on two conference calls now, which I’ve been party to and he’s not once mentioned my assistance, but has assumed all the credit.

I’m currently one of 26 people in a 4000 employee business that hasn’t and is being hassled to complete my career development plan.

You let someone else take credit for your work and don’t do the jobs expected of you. Effectively, the time you spent helping your pal get the job you think you should have be doing could have been spent on your career development plan (which shows your management you have an idea of developing your career). But you had better things to do like helping someone develop their career.

If part of your work is developing others; fine.

My development plan, in priority order, consists of:

Stay employed
Contribute to the ongoing value of the business
Avoid boredom

You let someone else take credit for your work and don’t do the jobs expected of you. Effectively, the time you spent helping your pal get the job you think you should have be doing could have been spent on your career development plan (which shows your management you have an idea of developing your career). But you had better things to do like helping someone develop their career.

BBSB – Its a bit out o context – I’ve spent 4 years dilligently filling out that plan to have have no opportunity to fulil it, despite being promised the means to do so by my superiors. This year, I’ve lost faith in repeating the process….

Can you be a bit more (well a lot more) ambitious with your next career plan? Basically go over the top, make it seem like you’re really ambitious, want to become CTO or whatever, blow your own trumpet, and subtly point out that you’re so brilliant another company is likely to want your skills. You’ve found out you won’t be forced to fulfil it, yet you’ll have given the impression that you ready to move up (or on). Remember it’s all about appearances. At least in writing you’ve got more time to come up with some bullshit.

BBSB – Its a bit out o context – I’ve spent 4 years dilligently filling out that plan to have have no opportunity to fulil it, despite being promised the means to do so by my superiors. This year, I’ve lost faith in repeating the process….

So do you think that the person whose career you’re helping was one of the .5% of employees who found the career development plan as lovingly developed by your senior management didn’t actually apply to them? or do you think he has a career plan and made the time to complete the form, possibly by getting someone else to do his job for him?
Also, do you think these things are one-sided? If there’s a career plan, there should be a review process at which you get to ask where your personal development comes in. And if there isn’t you should demonstrate your superior management skills by starting one.

Good luck Kryton. Two small bits of advice. First, how you behave in response to this is probably more important than what you do. No harm in highlighting your input into junior colleagues work, but be careful not to sound desperate or worried. As dribbling noted, the key is to act with dignity and in the manner befitting the senior role that you are chasing. Second, never forget that any social interactions are ultimately a political process – not necessarily in a negative sense. But you need to adapt to cultures, other people, company norms etc if you want that job. Yes, there are mavericks out there, but unlike Fl Lt. Pete Mitchell, most crash and burn!

First, how you behave in response to this is probably more important than what you do. No harm in highlighting your input into junior colleagues work, but be careful not to sound desperate or worried.

Yesterday unplanned discussion has got me worried about exactly that. C’est la vie, whats done is done…