I’m currently building my first ever wheel and seem to be a bit stuck.
I’m using the Roger Musson, Wheelpro book.

I trued it all up pretty well, got really good radial and lateral trueness, good dish, and then I came to evening the tension.

I don’t have a tensiometer so am using the pluck-method.

I work my way around the wheel, one side at a time getting even tension by tightening or loosening spokes and neighbouring spokes, end up with nice even tension, but then the wheel is out of true again.

I then true up the wheel, and the tension is out again…

Has anyone got any good tips or ways of working to get past this and a good balance of all elements? It’s doing my nut in… 🙂

I am wondering whether I’m trying to make it too perfect, and that I have to let little things be ‘near enough’..

Any tips?

IMO as long as you’ve not got any hideously loose spokes (or stupidly tight ones) you’ll be fine.

Aye, but the book says rightly so that even tension is the most important thing for a durable wheel so that’s what I’m aiming for.
I also can’t be doing with a wobbly wheel.. 😀

But you’re trying to achieve the impossible, it’s always a compromise between the two (three if you include lateral/radial trueness). Personally I trade perfection in equal tension for having a wheel which is closer to true.

My wheels last fine.

Exactly even tension is much less important than sufficiently high tension.

Get the wheel straight. Assuming you didn’t start with a buckled rim, that’ll automatically mean you end up with reasonably consistent tension.

But most importantly make sure the tension is high enough. That’s what kills wheels, low tension leads to flex, fatigue and breakages.

I have never checked for tension – why bother.
If your wheel is true then your spokes are tensioned right

-Eliminate wobble, up and down and dish.
-Get as much tension as you can without rounding the spokes.
-De-stress by pressing down on opposite ends of the rim with the wheel on the floor.
-Take it for a ride – accelerate and brake really hard while listening for the pings.
-Final tweaking + de-stressing
-Bobs your Uncle

as above, my wheels are never perfectly even tension but are straight and stay straight and tight. I do tend to build on the tight side as well.

think roger over-stresses the tension point.

For info, I’m told by the LBS that for a disc wheel a lateral difference of 4mm is acceptable according to an international standard or some such that is applied to complete wheels.

I did my first pair in the end and got into a similar situation as you, took them in to be finished off and he gave me one back saying that it was good enough as it was.

He also gave me a good tip that if your initial tension (before truing) is too high you can end up with a rim that has ‘ripples’ in both directions, that was what I’d done to the one he sorted for me.

Personally I always do a tension true (plucking spokes for tone) after my initial rough radial and lateral true. My experience from doing this is that it seems possible to get a physically true wheel with quite large variations in tension – generally you can take out the tension variations without losing mush of the true. Then I do most of the final physical truing after that by checking the tension of the spokes in the adjustment zone and tweaking the ones which best balance the tension. As commented above, eventually you have to ignore perfectly even tension though and just get it straight.

Though I’m almost certainly being far more anal about this than the pro builders commenting above.

I’m told by the LBS that for a disc wheel a lateral difference of 4mm is acceptable according to an international standard or some such that is applied to complete wheels

It might be acceptable but its certainly not desirable and would annoy the hell out of me. Why apply some mass manufacturers quality control numbers to your own hand built wheels. If your doing it do it properly!

He also gave me a good tip that if your initial tension (before truing) is too high you can end up with a rim that has ‘ripples’ in both directions, that was what I’d done to the one he sorted for me.

don’t know what orifice that came from. Building a wheel is a gradual process – you don’t have an initial tension as such. You naturally add tension to the wheel through repetition of the 3 truing steps.

-Take it for a ride – accelerate and brake really hard while listening for the pings.

The book I have(Roger Musson) says that the pinging you get is from spokes that are twisted when tightened.
I’ve certainly had this pinging when tightening my own spokes on wheels that have become loose.
He says to put a piece of tape across the spoke like a flag, so when you tension it you can see if the spoke itself is turning.

I guess the book will err on the side of doing everything exactly spot on, and it’s only experience which tells you what is most important. It’s experience that I don’t have yet.

Incidentally, I’m building a Mavic ex721 rim at the moment, which has eyelets. I’m building a Flow ex next without eyelets so I guess tension is more critical or more liable to damage?

The book I have(Roger Musson) says that the pinging you get is from spokes that are twisted when tightened.

Indeed – if you get pinging on the first ride then you’ve not backed off the nipples properly when truing. I just do it by feel (and from experience) – if you do this properly then no tweaking should be required.

As mentioned, true, even the tensions then true again paying attention to which spokes will give the desired effect while having minimal effect on the even tension.

Thanks folks. It’s good to know I’m not entirely doing things wrong, and maybe I’m just being too critical of each stage.

The pinging is twisting of the spokes
I find that when I build a wheel with straight gauge spokes I don’t get this and they don’t need any tweaking. They seem to be a lot more resistant to twisting which is logical.

Double butted spokes twist loads and I haven’t done one yet that hasn’t needed de-stressing and a bit of tweaking after 1 ride. Backing off helps but its difficult to know exactly how much a spoke has twisted once you start getting a lot of tension into the wheel.

I like that idea of tape but I suppose its all extra time and tweaking is pretty quick to do.

Straight pull spokes are the worst of all as they spin as well as twist 🙁 I only managed to finish one of these by using mole grips to steady each spoke. Wont bother with those again.

No experience of no eyelets but they may be more sensitive to stress – don’t want to crack the rim.

don’t know what orifice that came from. Building a wheel is a gradual process – you don’t have an initial tension as such. You naturally add tension to the wheel through repetition of the 3 truing steps.

I’m inclined to agree! I’ve used RM’s book for years through three or four wheelsets and that’s the route I’ve taken.

I don’t think there’s much disagreement between the main guides – I’ve got Brandt’s “The Bicycle Wheel” http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Bicycle-Wheel-Jobst-Brandt/dp/0960723668 which is what I’ve mainly used, but there are also some good tips from Sheldon http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Would bladed/aero spokes or whatever they’re called help with the twisting problem?

RM’,s books great…

I aim to get wheel true and straight and as long as the spokes are tensioned and sound close I’m happy.

Just don’t forget to oil the nipples prior to assembly ….

Just don’t forget to oil the nipples prior to assembly ….

^^^this.
and the eyelets on the rim, too…

I have never checked for tension – why bother.

Because it’s important. And some rims build to higher or lower tension than others – eg Stans.

If your wheel is true then your spokes are tensioned right

Err no. I can show you a perfectly true wheel with spokes flopping around like a prick in a bowler hat.
But if you’ve got decent tension and a nice straight, round wheel, the chances are the tension is pretty even.

accelerate and brake really hard while listening for the pings.

A wheel shouldn’t ping at all if built well. Pinging is the spokes moving as they are twisted and is generally accompanied by the wheel going out of true. Oil your nipples well and de-stress properly and it doesn’t happen. My wheels don’t ping much at all, and not at all after the first 10 yards. And I’m trying to improve on that. 🙂

Would bladed/aero spokes or whatever they’re called help with the twisting problem?

No, far worse.

Would bladed/aero spokes or whatever they’re called help with the twisting problem?

No, far worse [/quote]

easier to hold still, though

Ish, you can easily twist a bladed spoke all the way around about a point – I put at least 20 twists into a CX-Ray without it breaking! Even a lightweight round spoke will spring back rather than deform plasticly.

easier to hold still, though

At the point you’re holding it. The bladed bit past the end of your tool will still twist.

Lots of bladed spokes are straight pull. If you don’t hold them the whole thing spins and you gent precisely nowhere….
🙂

That’s the straight pull bit though, not the bladed-ness. you can easily see when a bladed spoke starts to twist at least.

phatstanley – Member 
Just don’t forget to oil the nipples prior to assembly ….
^^^this.
and the eyelets on the rim, too…

I did this, using chain lube. It was several days ago though, but hopefully it’ll still benefit.