Why has the industry suddenly embraced 27.5? How has this come about? Is there a bike industry memo that gets circulated?

It doesn’t feel like it’s about the benefits of the wheel size, it feels like it’s come from somewhere else as there is negligible difference with 26″.

I’m guessing it’s about driving bike sales and making older bikes feel out of date? But there must be some co-ordination between different businesses in the industry to make this happen. Is there some kind of bike illuminati or do businesses just copy the big players like Specialized?

Not sure if I’m feeding a troll here but anyway, why pick Specialized as your sample brand when they are one of the few that don’t have a 650b in their 2014 line up?

They pretty much ride the same. It’s just a way to part the gullible from their excess £££

It’s marketing politics. The industry tried to convince us all to buy 29, they’ve now realised we are not going to so the next new thing is 27.5, it’s too embarrassing for them to just revert back to 26, certainly not immediately.

“The Industry” does not act as one entity, but yes, they are bigging up minor differences/improvements in order to get folk to buy new stuff.

Not as bad as 15mm/tapered steerers iMO.

Specialized are still 29er anyway.

Ok I’ll jump in because I’m sick of all the bollocks being spouted about the difference or NO difference between 26 and 27.5. There is a significant difference and it matters in so many ways.
Take your seat post and drop it by 1.5 inches. Change the stem length on your fave ride by 20mm and see how that feels.
There are people on here psh pshin about 650b and the lack of difference it has between 26 but they bleat on instead about a difference in head angle of 3 degrees or 120mm over 140mm travel and 2.2 v 2.3 tyres.
As we all know, a tiny bit of anything makes a big difference on the trail. Try it and make up your own mind because the industry invests millions to develop products that perform better. Surely no one with half a brain would believe they are investing their money to develop a range of bikes which are of no incremental benefit from the ones they’ve been selling for the last 30 years.
Yes, it’s true. A lot of riders don’t prefer 29 over 26 and the difference between the two is easily noticeable, by even a lunk rider.
Seriously though, do you think that a horde of pro riders have been brainwashed into believing their 650b rides are better than 26 or 29 and in fact they aren’t at all and they are all just gullible and stupid?

gears_suck – Member
Seriously though, do you think that a horde of pro riders have been brainwashed into believing their 650b rides are better than 26 or 29 and in fact they aren’t at all and they are all just gullible and stupid?

You believe pros don’t ride what they’re paid to ride?

industry invests millions to develop products that perform sell better

You know every time someone starts a wheel size thread, a kitten dies?

You believe pros don’t ride what they’re paid to ride?

So when Kulhavey won the Olympic gold medal on a full suspension 29er he either thought it was the best tool for the job and was proven correct or he was made to ride a bike he didn’t really think was the best tool for the job and still won an Olympic gold medal. Either way the bike comes out of it looking pretty good .

No trolling intended, this thread isn’t about one size vs another, more seeking insight into how the industry operates! And I guess Specialized were the wrong example…

You believe pros don’t ride what they’re paid to ride?

You’ll sell more race bikes winning races.

If the company you work for developed a product, along with virtually everyone else in the industry, in order to take advantage in an opening in the market, would you put your conspiracy theory tin foil hat on, or would you say, oh hey, a chance for my company to expand its revenue stream, generate income and keep me in a job?

Is called the bike industry because it’s an industry. Bike composite aren’t fluffy charities, they’re businesses, of course, if they can make a product that will sell, they will.

650B is taking off because people are buying them. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it – there are still some 26″ and 29″ bikes available. Are you still buying CRT televisions and wind up telephones?

how the industry operates

Someone makes something different to what most think is ‘right’ and others rubbish it. Some niche/open-minded/hard-to-please/otherwise jaded riders like it and start going on about how great it is. Debate on forums develop. Bike brands with little else to lose or an interest in new stuff try it and like it, many run with it. Online waffle continues. A big parts brand makes the missing link component and some more bike brands follow because now it’s actually possible to make the bike they wanted in their factory, or it’s just ‘new stuff to do’. Small early-adopter bike brands look good, act smug or just carry on as they were. Online waffle gets louder. Bigger bike brands or smaller brands who’re less quick to try stuff try it or simply decide where to jump on board, or how to rubbish it further. About turns are made and the online waffle becomes personal between the tribes. By now most brands have hedged bets. The bikes out there in shops look a bit different. Forum chat starts to look back and ask how it all happened and if there is a conspiracy in ‘The Industry’. The Surly guys get drunk and laugh at us all.

To recap a million other threads…

It doesn’t seem to be really true that this is purely an industry push. Santa Cruz are hilariously honest about it, they made what they thought would sell not what they think is best, and that was driven by customers asking for 650b bike who had never ridden one. People who’d sold it to themselves based on nothing. So we pretty much got the “wheel size revolution” we deserve for being morons.

It’s basically a perfect storm. 26 is old and boring but works very well. 29er also works very well but is a scary change as it’s 3! THREE! bigger, and you can actually see the difference.

So there was an appetite for change and an interest in novelty, but a counterbalancing fear of change. The perfect and pointless answer was a change big enough to make people feel like they’re buying something new and exciting, yet not different enough to be scary. Course, that also means it has to be a less worthwhile change but people are buying change rather than results.

Even then, they got it a bit wrong, hence the quiet lie of calling it 27.5 to convince people it’s bang in the middle.

Cycling is a small world, one company finds out the other is going 650b and does the same to ‘keep up’ – Then the marketing department takes over…..

We are a strange bunch us cyclist though – a business is there to turn a profit, they will maximise this however possible.

People who’d sold it to themselves based on nothing. So we pretty much got the “wheel size revolution” we deserve for being morons.

yep, pretty much what i have heard secondhand from Trek, they aren’t interested in making 650, new tooling etc. But the market wants them so they are making them.

IMO it is stupid, and i am not buying a new bike until i have a clue where the market is going, but such is life.

I heard a rumour that it all started with product managers from a big brand talking loudly at an industry dinner (not an Illuminati one sorry, just a parts supplier’s bash) about this awesome new wheelsize, everyone was really into it, the marketing pitch works and we’re going big on it for next model year now that the fork maker has got a fork for us.. etc. Deliberately loud, so other PMs could hear. Next thing the fork brand has a load more orders and sense a trend. And here we are. Some paranoid, some not caring. Others quite liking a slightly bigger wheel. The rest are on 29ers and CNGAS : )

Specialized certainly have the “mid size” wheel coming out sooner than you think…Sea Otter Race in the USA is where we will see their popular trail and enduro bikes with this wheel size 😉

Its a highly competitive industry and every manufacturer is trying to find something to distinguish themselves from their competition and stimulate more sales. No different to any other industry or any other product in that regard.

So now that the frame material thing has been done to death, the different types of mountain bike (XC, AM, DH, Enduro etc), the plethora of gear combo’s and got know’s what other things that all claim to be taking the sport and technology further forward due to their development and R&D teams, why not do the same with wheel sizes?? They jumped on the 29″ thing, there was some people/quarters that didn’t take to them too well, maybe it was too much of a jump, so now the focus on 27.5.

Its all B-lox. Ride what you’ve got and enjoy it, and if you’re shopping for a new bike, buy what you like. There isn’t that much difference between different bikes of similar genre’s, so why not choose your bike on something as subjective as its your favourite brand, its a colour you like, its the bike your biking hero rides etc. Its as good a reason as any.

Its all B-lox. Ride what you’ve got and enjoy it, and if you’re shopping for a new bike, buy what you like. There isn’t that much difference between different bikes of similar genre’s, so why not choose your bike on something as subjective as its your favourite brand, its a colour you like, its the bike your biking hero rides etc. Its as good a reason as any.

Of course , the colour or make is far more important than how it rides isn’t it .

Singlespeed_Shep – Member
You believe pros don’t ride what they’re paid to ride?
You’ll sell more race bikes winning races.

I doubt that – any evidence?

And do you actually believe wheel size can make the difference to win a race?

Hey Northwind, what about your 15mm axle analogy? I liked that one.

You can tell I’ve read too many of these threads can’t you 🙂

I’d suggest looking very carefully at the ‘warranty’ and real world example of ‘warranty claims’ (easily found on the internet, usually as complaints..) when choosing a “brand”

typically, the large brands with good distributors will offer timely warranty, the smaller brands with not-so-good distributors, not so…

cynic-al – Member

Singlespeed_Shep – Member
You believe pros don’t ride what they’re paid to ride?
You’ll sell more race bikes winning races.

I doubt that – any evidence?

And do you actually believe wheel size can make the difference to win a race?

Are you suggesting that advertising doesn’t work .

To your other question are you suggesting that given a constant power and skill factor that bikes of all 3 normal MTB wheel sizes will cover a cross country MTB course in exactly the same time ?

To your other question are you suggesting that given a constant power and skill factor that bikes of all 3 normal MTB wheel sizes will cover a cross country MTB course in exactly the same time ?

pretty much, one will be a bit faster in one part of a course another in a different part. Worst case you put people off racing because they don’t have the right kit… Is that really the way forward? For all the UCIs stupid ideas the one good idea was to try and control the road bike arms race.

Picking The Perfect Enduro Bike: Which wheel size is right for you?

To your other question are you suggesting that given a constant power and skill factor that bikes of all 3 normal MTB wheel sizes will cover a cross country MTB course in exactly the same time ?

It’s been proven time and time again that dependant on the course / rider that either 26 or 29 has advantages and disadvantages. And 650b remains the best of both or a compromise of the two, depending on your view. Designers are building out some of the 29er disadvantages ( for example by reducing chain stay length to reduce wheelbase) to mimic the ride qualities of 26 yet keep the 29 advantages in (ie less effort in continual rolling motion).

If I don’t have a decent choice of 26″ wheeled bikes when I next replace my mountain bike the industry will be losing my business.

Goal post moving bar stewards 😉

P.S. That cynic-al link…..I still don’t get this ‘enduro’ stuff. There are two sorts of mountainbike, cross country and downhill.

Marketing has been causing bother since this sport became popular!

roverpig – Member

Hey Northwind, what about your 15mm axle analogy? I liked that one.

I wasn’t feeling ranty enough 😆

If I don’t have a decent choice of 26″ wheeled bikes when I next replace my mountain bike the industry will be losing my business

So presumably you’ve not bought a new TV since CRTs became unavailable? You’d essentially give up a hobby because you cant find exactly the right thing…

(unless I’ve missed some sarcasm 😳

This thread is 15 days late

aracer – Member
This thread is 15 days late

I’d says it’s a month and a half early.

Why do people insist on saying 27.5 when a 650b rim is actually 27.1in?

glasgowdan – Member
Why do people insist on saying 27.5 when a 650b rim is actually 27.1mm?

😆

The best thing i ever did to my (26″) xc bike was put lighter, stiffer wheels on it.

People don’t, manufacturers do.

sam3000 – Member
The best thing i ever did to my (26″) xc bike was put lighter, stiffer wheels on it

Snap. As well as some carbon upgrades, I now have some crests with Nic/Ralph’s tubeless for racing, and will use my ‘Ringles at all other times. I reckon it’s pretty quick (in the right hands 😉 ) but I’m sure so will be along in a minute to tell me why a lighter 26er isn’t as good as something else.

559mm vs 584mm…

25mm, 1 inch in it…

The thing is a 2.25″ tyre on 559 rim is more like 26.5″ than 26″ add an inch, et voilà you can call it 27.5, but let’s not forget most 26″ wheels exceed their stated size by a wee bit.

So like for like the profile its +12.5mm radially, that’s it. Its not a quantum leap in bicycle wheel technology really, 650b isn’t a new standard its a pretty old one that’s only just being applied to the MTB mass market now in a pretty cynical attempt to bump the revenue streams…

But it’s not a “Bad” thing necessarily, TBH I’m past really giving a shit, when I eventually do need a new bike I will probably buy a 650b wheeled one if they really have replaced 26″ by then, and I can see me putting 26″ wheels on a 650b frame to liven things up a shade maybe…

TBF MTBers are a pretty fickle bunch of magpie, carpark bitches, constantly attracted to new and shiny things irrespective of any real benefits being demonstrated, you can forgive the various companies for expecting us to jump on yet another band waggon. Did customers really ask for it? Of course not, but say it forcefully and often enough and I’m sure people will start to believe…

At least there will still be MTBs in years to come…

Kryton57 – Member

To your other question are you suggesting that given a constant power and skill factor that bikes of all 3 normal MTB wheel sizes will cover a cross country MTB course in exactly the same time ?

It’s been proven time and time again that dependant on the course / rider that either 26 or 29 has advantages and disadvantages. And 650b remains the best of both or a compromise of the two, depending on your view. Designers are building out some of the 29er disadvantages ( for example by reducing chain stay length to reduce wheelbase) to mimic the ride qualities of 26 yet keep the 29 advantages in (ie less effort in continual rolling motion).

Strange how you used the terms best of both but not worst of both , not very balanced in my view . Anyway I’m a bit confused are you saying that they would all cover the course in exactly the same time or do you think that possibly one wheelsize would be faster than the others , or one slower than the others if you like?