So – I just signed up at this forum hoping you guys are able to help me.

I know this is something that have been posted earlier (I have read as much as I could find about it – forums, test, reviews, etc.). But I am making this topic to, hopefully, get some up to date and honest comments.

My situation is:
I am looking for a light and long lasting set of XC wheels for training and racing. With light I mean max. 1600 gr. and lighter is only better. With long lasting I mean wheels for all year use that i do not have to service every second month, and easy to service/change bearings on, when time comes.

I weigh 80 kg. and I ride my XC bike pretty hard – in the terms of XC (not DH hard – got my Glory DH for that, but I ride everything I get past on my XC tracks (roots, natures small jumps/drops, etc.). My bike is a Giant Anthem X1 (fully).

First I looked at a set of Hope Hoobs Pro 2 evo. Then the Hope Hoobs Pro 2 evo SP and then the Hope Hoobs Pro 3 SP.
My doubts about Hope is: I like the weight of the Pro 3 SP, but the rider weight limit of 85 kg. and their warning about riding style scares me of a bit – even though I tell my self that they can probably take a lot more than i would expect. But the alternative would be to accept the around 200 gr. extra weight (as far as I have been able to find out) and go with the Pro 2 evo SP.

BUT – there always is a but! – After reading a lot of forums I discovered the Superstar Superleggera/superfast custom wheel option. This is a wheel that I have never heard about, and it has been a bit hard to find out about (peoples experience, knowledge) is this 120 points of engagement hub really as good as it sounds on the paper? – or is it more talk than action?

I have chosen three different setups. All with Superleggera rear hub and Superfast front hub.
1: ZTR Crest rim, db butted Sapim Race spokes, Brass nipples(chose these on all three for added strenght?)
2: ZTR Crest rim, CX Ray Sapim spokes (XC only), Brass nipples.
3: ZTR Crest rim, CX Ray Sapim spokes (XC only), Brass nipples, And upgraded to the TI Supperleggera hub
I do not know the weight of these 3 wheels sets, but from a estimate I think option one is around 1600 gr. – option two a bit lighter and option 3 a bit lighter again. Correct me if you know better!

For prices then the Hope Hoobs are a bit cheaper. I have found the Pro 3 SP for £300 at bikeoutlet. And so far I have only been able to find the Superleggera at superstars own site – as they say: only available direct. With prices at: option 1 £300, option 2 £360, option 3 £390. (My starting budget being max. £400 so I am in the lucky situation that between these wheels the price difference does not matter – I just want what suits me best – race fastest but without compromising to much with strength and durability).

All personal experience, comments, knowledge, etc. is very welcome. What wheels would you choose if you where in my shoes or is there one/some of the wheels you would certainly not buy – and why ?

I know this was a lot of text – but i hope you will read through it 🙂

Thanks,

Biscuit anyone?

superstar products their customer services and the owner are generally not well thought of in this parish
I have no knowledge of the wheels
the octopus reference will amuse the local and confuse you [sorry]

Don’t tell me… I think I know the answer to this one…

Is it…..

No sorry it’s gone

Not sure about the hoobs, do you mean these ones?

Even the XC hope stuff is pretty tough: look at Andy Barlow from Dirtschool (would love to see some of you guys giving him sh1t about his lycra…)

cx ray = waste of money, buy revolutions.

JRA do good light wheels, there have been MANY threads on this topic previously.

Hub weight is not as important as rim weight. Neither actually effect your speed much.

I’d say buy the hubs you are comfortable with in maintenance terms, the rims and spoke you are comfortable with in durability terms, avoid alloy nipples (they corrode) and don’t waste your money on cx ray spokes (no benefit over revolutions).

Superstar, mmm… Build quality is all over the shop. Some very good wheels, some pretty awful wheels, some middling wheels. Personally, I think I would but I’d budget for a rebuild just in case (don’t rely on their customer service, they promise a free rebuild but in practice that turned out to mean my mate being told off for daring to ride glentress red twice on the all mountain wheelset, and told he should have bought DH wheels and it was all his fault.)

the octopus reference will amuse the local and confuse you [sorry]

You’re forgiven – but hopefully there will be others that can be more useful to me – but it is a nice looking biscuit 😉

Neither actually effect your speed much

afraid I disagree. I find wheelset weight adds up and makes a massive difference to acceleration and overall speed. On my XC bike I’ve got an old training wheelset 4.2’s on proII’s which is approx 1800g and recently built up a race set of A2z’s / olympic rims which is somewhere between 1400-1500g. Rest of components the same, GPS records that I’m approx 10% quicker over the same local runs, in a race thats a big difference.

Back to the OP – I actually have a SS superlegga / crest wheelset which I use on my full susser for trail centres (afan and the like) it weighs 1600g. Hub seems quality – if I’m honest I cannot tell the extra engagement when riding along, only when I start and I’m thinking about it. It does make an awesome angry bee sound, which is a bit marmite – personally if I was spending my money again I would stick with their standard hub.

Be warned the build I got from SS was crap (seems to be common if you google) my rear wheel was like a wet noodle on it’s second ride and needed completely retensioning. Ok if you have a trueing stand – if not your LBS will charge you £20 or you can pay to post it back to SS for a free true.

My A2Z/olympic wheelset cost something in the region of £280 for sub 1500g (built myself). I’ve run them ok round cwmcarn xc but I wouldn’t have them as my only wheelset. No evidence they are fragile but they just feel too light for hard riding.

cx ray = waste of money, buy revolutions.

+1, not worth it at all. I’ve had 3 sets of wheels with them.

I’ve got some Hope Hoops on Crests and find them heavy and unresponsive, 1585g on my kitchen scales. Also got some A2Z hubs on Podiums which are 1246g, far prefer the way they ride, although the longevity is a bit of an unknown. The hubs have gone a full season without any attention though, I’d definitely have another set.

Check out ActionSports.de too, their FunWorks hubs build into some light wheels for not much money. Depends if you want proven reliability or if you’re happy to take a bit of a punt.

FWIW the bearings in my Hopes have gone a bit gritty, having been treated better and used less than my A2Zs!

steer clear of superstar. if (or when) something goes wrong you are on your own, although you might get an abusive email if you are lucky.

hope on the other hand have some of the best customer support going.

njee, been meaning to ask how you’re getting on with the A2Zs. Is that a full season of racing only? All conditions?

Did you day you use the hope/crests for training/JRA? (do you ever JRA? Do you use the term “junk miles”? 🙂 )

The theory was to use the Hopes for ‘normal riding’ (which I do a fair bit of, usually at least one 3-5 hour ride a week when I’m not racing, happy to call it JRA 🙂 ), and the A2Zs for racing.

As it’s panned out I’ve ended up using the A2Zs far more as it was often a ride between races, and I couldn’t be bothered to realign my brakes. So they’ve done a full season of racing (including Mayhem and SiTS) including some very muddy races, a very wet Afan and plenty of ‘normal’ riding around the Surrey Hills too, and they’re absolutely perfect – surprisingly so to be honest. They’ve been jetwashed a few times, and I’m not overly careful when washing frankly, and the original grease is still spotless, I’ve taken them apart a couple of times to check, but never actually done anything. Considering they spin better than any cartridge bearing hub I’ve played with (up there with the best cup and cone) I’d definitely have another set.

Their downfall appeared to be that there was no 15mm thru-axle version – but the bearings and the shells are the same as American Classic, so their 15mm conversion kit should work, I’m thinking of changing, so will put that to the test!

Have a look at American Classic. Really light, tough and a lot cheaper than Mavic et al.
Their Race 26 wheels are <1350g the pair.

I tested a pair of the “all-mountain” wheels a while back and even they were only about 1500g the pair and the wheels were super stiff and bombproof.

I’ve got American Classics on both my road and track bikes: you can’t get a better combination of low weight, stiffness and price. Spares are easily available too, they just use regular spokes so any shop can repair them if necessary.

got pro 3 xc3 with 355 front wheel not had a problem with it, bearings are pretty thin so i have longevity concerns but fine >12months in. Got a pro2 crest rear wheel on my hardtail, crest is not quite strong enough for me, managed to ding it in first fortnight on nothing very big, but I’m pretty hard on back wheels, did manage to get it reinflated tubeless, now run with a bit too much PSI, will replace it with an arch soon.

Neither actually effect your speed much.

I got issues with this too, on my lightly shod bike I’ll out accellerate my mates freewheeling on gentle tarmac downhills, on a bike with heavier wheels I won’t. (yeah lots of variables but I reckon lighter wheels = some free speed)

Superleggera nubs are Chosen ones:

http://www.chosen-hubs.com/chosen.php?sid=5

other brands also use them, pretty neat, fairly light, can be fragile

Thank you for some good comments so fare. I think I will stay away from the Superstar wheels (and builds). Since I am living in Denmark and therefore have to send the wheels away for a longer period of time if something happens, I do not want to buy from a place with a history of bad wheel builds and customer service.

Have a look at American Classic. Really light, tough and a lot cheaper than Mavic et al.
Their Race 26 wheels are <1350g the pair.

I have looked at these – but had a hard time finding a place to buy them? Following their homepage they should be available late Jan 2012 – anybody knows what the price will be/where to buy (maybe preorder) them??

If you live in Denmark check out New Ultiamte. They’re a Danish brand, I used to be the UK agent for them, they were going to be doing some nice looking wheels, dunno if that ever happened!

Buy Hope, other companies might repair stuff under warrnety, others might sell you a spare part. Hope consistently send people stuff for free if/when it breaks or bits roll off under the fridge during a service, or fix it for free despite being 5 years old.

I just don’t really think their products are that good in the first place though!

Perfectly good ‘work horse’ components (which is a great niche to occupy). But not exceptional at all.

Depends what you deem exceptional though?

If it’s the lightest/cheepest/strongest/most functional* then they probably don’t win, but to probably score 8/10 in every category and be indefinately rebuildable it pretty exceptional IMO.

*as in does the job the best, so the most powerfull brake, stiffest stem, most points of engagement and least drag on a hub, etc.

But I’m not that sure they do do all those things well (and I know that’s what you’re saying). Pro 2s are prone to splitting, bearing life isn’t great, they’re not that cheap, or that light. Hope Hoops are good value admittedly, and I know people like the whole British engineering thing, and I’m certainly not saying their products are bad, but personally for me they just don’t do it.

They’re just ‘the default choice’ for a lot of people.

Yes their customer service is legendary, but I’d sooner have DT hubs (for example) and talk to Madison if they ever went wrong, which I’ve never needed to! I’d rather a product that excelled in one area, and that that area wasn’t “easy to fix when they break”.

Just my thoughts.

Pro 2s are lighter than equivalently-priced DT Hubs.

But less reliable (IME), and they’re heavier than 240s. Like I say, they’re good ‘work horse’ parts, but they don’t excel in any one area.

The only good thing people can agree on with Hope stuff is that their customer service is good. I’d rather the product was unanimously praised. Just my thoughts.

The hub splitting thing was just the first few batches wasnt it? They tried machining them from billet before going back to (much stronger)forged blanks IIRC and everyone who broke them got new wheels out of it.

They’re just ‘the default choice’ for a lot of people.

I think thats proof of what I was saying, they do everything well enough that to get any better you’d have to comprimise. Those A2Z’s are lighter, but would you fit them to a DH bike?

Pro 2s are lighter than equivalently-priced DT Hubs.

True, hope don’t a posh hub just reasonably priced reasonable one. Would be interested in what they could come up with if budget was less of an issue.

I’ve run two sets of A2Z hubs, a set on some Alpine rims and another on some XC717s. I’ve also had a few Hope Pro2s, and am currently running SP-Pro3s on Crests as my race wheelset, and Pro2s on Crests as my trail wheelset.

The A2Z were great, small bearings, but did really well – handled a good battering in Scotland, as well as races and training rides. The thing that killed it, was what Njee alluded to – the lack of QR15 compatibility.

The SP-Pro3s have been awesome, the only issue I’ve had is killing a new set of rear hub bearings in a little over 2 rides. Given that included about 30 hours of riding, 12 hours of that at Gorrick in the mud and 4 hours at Dusk Til Dawn in the sand.

I’d be keen to try some American Classics, I’m running them on the road bike and the lack of resistance is amazing – they roll like nothing else.

I think thats proof of what I was saying, they do everything well enough that to get any better you’d have to comprimise.

It’s what I said as well. It was a general observation that their products are, to repeat myself “work horse” parts, which of course means they sell in their droves, and is a good business model.

It was a personal observation that they do everything alright, and nothing really well. That is exactly what many people want.

Would be interested in what they could come up with if budget was less of an issue.

Their integrated freehub body is a good indicator of that I guess, but I agree, it’d be interesting to see if they just made a light hub.

in a little over 2 rides. Given that was about 30 hours of riding, 12 hours of that at Gorrick in the mud and 4 hours at Dusk Til Dawn in the sand.

Maths not your strong point? 😉

The thing that killed it, was what Njee alluded to – the lack of QR15 compatibility.

I’m definitely interested to check the AM Classic axle fits (although I really don’t see why it wouldn’t), they’d be spot on then! And yes I probably would use them on a DH bike ‘Spoon.

I bought a pair of superstar switch evo and crests, they were under 1600g and the hubs are actually pretty good (made by novatech) though the pawls aren’t as solid as in an hope hub. The build wasn’t great and the non drive side rear went really loose after one ride, so, if you feel you can fix that yourself they could be worth a punt. I have some Hope pro II’s now and am very unimpressed with the sealing on them.

Njee- Fixed that for myself

Given that included about

thisisnotaspoon – Member
The hub splitting thing was just the first few batches wasnt it?

Only if it was an incredibly massive batch lasting for years… Still happens to Evo hubs. Not that it bothers me too much, sure it’s a pain if it happens but it’s not so common and they deal with it as well as is really possible.

IMO there’s nothing amazing about Hope but they’re pretty solid, and pretty well priced, and that’s enough to make them worth buying IMO. Only reason the rear is reasonably light is the soft-as-cheese freehub though, with the steel one fitted they’re heavier than Shimano XT/

IMO there’s nothing amazing about Hope but they’re pretty solid, and pretty well priced, and that’s enough to make them worth buying IMO

That sums up what I was trying to say but in a more positive way than I managed!

I get what you are saying – but still! Where will i be able to by the american classic MTB Race and maybe when will i be able to order it – and what would it cost?? Because it looks like a very tempting set of wheels!

Update:
Thank you all for the good, helpfull posts (and the octopus biscuit). I have made my desicion and I am going for the American Classic. I have found a good (danish) place to get them, so now i just have to find out if i want to wait a couple of moths and pay the extra money for the MTB race 26 model og safe some money and get the MTB 26 tubeless – a bit heavier, probably a bit stronger, and awailable right away. I will give you another update when I have decided and tried the wheels.

njee20 – Member
But less reliable (IME), and they’re heavier than 240s. Like I say, they’re good ‘work horse’ parts, but they don’t excel in any one area.

240s is twice the price.

I’m not suggesting Hopes are the greatest out there, but at the price point, there’s very little to better them

I have made my desicion and I am going for the American Classic.

Third option to get the LBS to build American Classic hubs onto Stan’s rims?

Andy