"Cup and cone hubs on suspension frames can also self-loosen due to the torque applied from the brake"

You made that up right ?

shimano hubs are ok but the freehub constantly dying on me was enough to make me change…. XT and an XTR (eyewateringly expensive to replace ….but the hub was smooth as butter)

agree with the modicum of maintainance and mechanical sympathy and the actual hub and bearing faces will last a long time but the freehub issue grates me … id have XTR again but summer only wheels !

For me, it's simple and probably similar to many above.

1. You can almost endlessly refresh your Hope (or other) hub by replacing the bearings which can be done for about £8 per hub (in the rear hub, the freewheel bearings rarely need replacing) and last 1-2 years. Each time, the hub works like new again.
2. C&C hubs need regular checking
3. With C&C hubs, even the slightest bit of play or over tightening can quickly lead to pitted cups which means they'll never run smoothly again
4. Shimano freewheels fail relatively quickly for me (2ish years) and are pretty expensive to replace (£20ish)
5. Hopes do fail (I've had various Hope hubs for about 14 years now and the three that have broken (flanges) have been replaced FOC by Hope – a bit of a hassle but I reckon it balances out with the points above.

Yes they hubs work well, but……..

They weigh 100g+ more than the hope ones.

The freehubs cost more than a new hub and only last a year, 18months tops. Yes bearings are 50p a time, but hope bearings outlast shimano freehubs and cost less.

The freehubs have play almost from new, why bother indexing your shifting to the nearest tenth of a mm, only to have the cassette wobbling a couple of mm each way?

They bend axels far more often than other designs.

shimano hubs are a bit heavier…

about 450 grams for an Xt rear Vs about 310g for a hope/Nukeproof rear.

(steel axle and freehub body – or at least they were the last time i looked)

but yes, you are doing something wrong if your shimano cones/locknuts come loose or tighten themselves mid ride. get some cone spanners, and a 17mm(?) ring spanner, do one side up VERY tight, adjust the other side – and tighten it about half as much.

s'easy after a bit of playing around.

trail_rat – Member

"Cup and cone hubs on suspension frames can also self-loosen due to the torque applied from the brake"

You made that up right ?

Nope. I've worked in a couple of Kona dealerships and one hire place. This was a problem with large rotors, flexy dropouts/chainstays and cheapy M4xx series hubs.
The drive side cone locknut would always break loose, causing the cone to wear itself into the bearings. The owners wouldn't notice the extra drag (Kona Stinky riders tend to be a bit like this!~) and so would only bring it in when completely fubared.
This is partly why each of these places decided to drop Kona as they were so cheapskate about the hidden parts on the bike.

especially Shimano ones, do yourself a favour and open them up before you ever use them, and pack them with the thickest, stickiest grease you can find and adjust them up properly.

Yes this spot on advice!

Can anyone tell me jow to get the freehub off a DT240s??

Every thing I've read suggests it just pulls off.. believe me I've tried!

Maybe I am extra specially feeble.

I stopped buying Shimano hubs because it was possible (and I did ita few times through my own fault of neglect) to effectively write off the hub by pitting the cups. I've bought Hope size bearings, 16 for a tenner before now and I can guarantee if I knock the old ones out, new ones in it'll be done for another couple of years regardless of what cheap crap I tap back into the shells.

Agree with clubbed mostly. Although Shimano hubs are also mostly endlessly servicable with the right knowledge. Mind you rumbling hubs on a mountain bike isn't the end of the world…

Shimano every time even though I did have a 2 mile walk last week because of it. It was well overdue a service mind but a fairly freak problem. It's the second time a Shimano rear hub has locked up on me in 20 years. Whereas cartridge bearings have peeed me off regularly as soon as they start wobbling to when I have to get the hammer out to replace them.

If I was running cartridge bearings on the current bike I'd have to replace the bearing as soon as any wobble started as otherwise the current tyre of choice would regularly rub on the chainstay. No such problem with Shimano.

The best thing about cartridge hubs (hope at least) is the ease of moving between QR/15mm/20mm axles. But then I can buy 2 XT wheel builds for the price of one Hope.

Oh and the freewheeling silence is a joy.

BW that seems exremely odd, particularly with a non horst link bike.

Did it happen with other shimano hubs?

Did it happen with other shimano hubs?

I've seen other hubs do it – deore and XT ones. Not sure if most were on suspension frames as folks generally just bought the wheels in. Seen some nicely chewed up dropouts because of it though!
I think the thing with the stinkys came about through having the calliper mount on the replacable dropout, which would flex or shift under braking and then work at the locknuts. Probably both ends would loosen, but the drive side one is the one that would walk into the bearings.
Why don't they use a left hand thread on the driveside?

best hubs I ever had were XT Parallax from 1995. I have never needed to open them up, they are still perfect (admittedly not ridden much anymore). Since then I have not got on with Shimano so well, the rear in particular.

A Hope hub can cost £20 a time to replace the bearings, and they don't last that long either IME (Rarely more than a year)

Neither is true.

you did check they were tight and locked when you built the bike right – or did you just assume they were right from factory – it is my experiance that c & c hubs rarely come from factory in a condition that they could be put out in

had nothing but issues with my xt hubs, after a few outings in the peaks the cones loosened, and not having a clue how to do them at the time i had to have them tightened up costing a bit of wedge, did the same again a few months on, and i developed the most bizarre noise from them near the end, i then had enough and had the wheels taken apart and built on pro2 hubs and they were amazing ever after, i had no issues with them almost 7 months on after i owned them…..

its put me off shimano hubs on my experience, though im sure some people have had no problem at all…..pro2's also felt alot beefier and sturdy in comparison too.

Seems to me that the vast majority of people that wouldn't recommend a Shimano hub, are people that don't have the knowledge/experience to be able to service a cup & cone hub properly.
Use threadlock on the locking nut and it won't keep coming loose!

Seems to me that the vast majority of people that wouldn't recommend a Shimano hub, are people that don't have the knowledge/experience to be able to service a cup & cone hub properly.

That's basically calling all of us that prefer Hope hubs thieves, liars and vagabonds. Not very nice, is it? Next you'll be blaming us for the downfall of Civilisation itself. And why you can't get a decent loaf of bread anywhere any more.

Pfft.

the only aspect of shimano hubs I don't like is the disposable freehub. I've got two bikes on hope hubs and two on shimano.

It seems to me that the vast majority of people that choose to use Shimano hubs are smelly, beardy recluses with bit of biscuit in their beards and who enjoy servicing/adjusting hubs regularly.

Reasonable? 😉

Reasonable?

You forgot to mention their strange sexual proclivities which we can't possibly discuss on a family forum.

I've run XT hubs for years now and IME they give no bother.
The freehub could last a bit longer, but in the 7 years I've had my current HT, I've replaced one set of rear bearings and never touched the front hub at all.

Good point, Fred. Shimano users all watch Lazy Town…

I'm probably repeating what others have said, but I hate setting up cup and cone bearings, always seem to be too tight and always worrying about them coming loose or tightening up
.
conversely I've got two Hope hubs which are used regularly – one is 6 years old, the other 3 and both haven't been touched (apart from regreasing the freehub out of curiosity) and even have the original bearings

at those northwind photos: heresy!

😆 (shimano user and appreciator here)

I use XTR, LX and Tiagra, 105 and now some top end Swiss Bonti hubs.

All good if serviced etc.

My Tiagra hubs go through winter schmuck' and get regreased twice a year-piece of cake with decent cone spanners and top end boat grease sweet! and not shoddy white toothpaste bike grease from LBS.

decent cone spanners

a stamped bit of steel?
problem with cone spanners is you need at least two, and then there are loads of different sizes!
and they have no use for anything else…

OK. Seems plenty of people like them, plenty don't and plenty haven't a clue how to fettle them.

So where is there any guide how to sort them out properly? I've got XTRs that work a treat but I have no idea how to maintain them correctly. And I bet I'm not the only one. 😳

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=105

nicely serviced cup n cone hubs with non sticky grease in them spin far far far smoother than hope or dt offering and i mean FAR smoother

BUT i found my self servicing them after every 2 or 3 races to keep them that way – they never came loose the grease just got a bit yuck and watery so bought pro 3s to minimise the down time – when i can afford a set of race only wheels ill have a set of XTRs and keep my pro3s for play

Had rear XT shimano C&C come loose on a wet long ride over the moors on a 6 month old bike, stripped them down cleaned a regreased but its now pitted. I have hope hubs on my other bikes and they are easier to replace the bearing and as someone else pointed out, once new bearings are in its like new. However I have had a small section of the hub crack off where the rotor bolts go in….its still rideable though 😕

Hope hub can cost £20 a time to replace the bearings, and they don't last that long either IME (Rarely more than a year)

Neither is true.

Oh yes it is. I can argue the toss all week on this one, and have something to back it up! But I was wrong about the bearings, sorry…. They can cost £22.99! – (I chose my words carefully on that one, and it wasn't a random figure I'd thought up….)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24132

Cheap ones are under £10 a set, but it's still a whole lot more than 50p!

I've had 2.5 pairs of Pro 2 hubs and 1.5 pairs of XC hubs. The Pro 2s lunch their bearings in about a year, and sometimes as little as 4-5 months, (and fronts are worst IME), XCs last 1 – 2 years. Why?

XC bearing on the left, Pro 2s on the right-

Pro 2 bearings are simply undersized so you can fit loads of different axles through them. But they don't last too long as a result

I have had no problem with XTR hubs although I do look after them properly, current ones are about ten years old

One plus point is they don't make that infernal clicking noise that a certain brand does

ahwiles – Member

shimano hubs are a bit heavier…

about 450 grams for an Xt rear Vs about 310g for a hope/Nukeproof rear.

(steel axle and freehub body – or at least they were the last time i looked)

Current XT is about 400 grams… Pro 2 with a steel freehub body comes in heavier than XT funnily enough.

It seems to me that the vast majority of people that choose to use Shimano hubs are smelly, beardy recluses with bit of biscuit in their beards and who enjoy servicing/adjusting hubs regularly.

/checks over shoulder/

about 450 grams for an Xt rear Vs about 310g for a hope/Nukeproof rear.

Not really fair as Hope are more closely matched to XTR in price. Last time I looked XTR was slightly lighter but not by much. If weight bothered you you'd be looking at DTswiss and similar.