Viewing 31 posts - 121 through 151 (of 151 total)
  • What's with people racing 'challenge' events? Or just me that isn't? Discuss
  • Northwind
    Full Member

    Sancho – Member

    only issue I have is that these events are aimed at getting times up so if you just want to pootle then why enter, spaces are limited, you may as well save your money, and let someone who does want to ride it as intended the chance to do so. too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round,

    Ironically every race organiser in the world would say the opposite- numbers of races are related to demand. More bimblers = more races. Often no bimblers = no race at all.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    I wish you’d get over this obsession with whether it’s legal or not fella, quite simply, we don’t CARE !!!! Not in the slightest…

    you don’t have to care, i assume that when the landowner sues you for damages, or blocks the trails. etc you won’t care. When the landowner in the case of the NT invokes the bylaws, racing on a bridleway means you will be tresspassing, and takes you to court for tresspass, i guess you won’t care. In future when someone wants to organise an event and this gets thrown in their face you won’t care?

    When the landowner applies for the trail to be closed or rerouted, you won’t care, etc, etc.

    The stupid thing is you can race on a footpath!!!!

    http://imba.org.uk/public-rights-of-way/cycle-racing-on-bridleways/

    aracer
    Free Member

    Pretty sure that the last two can restrict access if they choose and it’s not actually a RoW…

    Where is there such access not on a RoW?

    Slightly bizarre in any case, as the suggestion appears to be that access will be removed from trails which it is legal to race on because people have raced on trails which it isn’t legal to race on. Presumably if people had raced on the trails you’re proposing they might withdraw access from then there wouldn’t actually be a problem?

    londonerinoz
    Free Member

    Is spandex the same thing as lycra then? Genuine question, I’ve never heard a cyclist, let alone someone claiming to be racer, call it spandex.

    surfer
    Free Member

    I havent read all this but what I have read I agree with Crikey and Oldgit.

    Its not racing if nobody else knows its a race and unless everyone agrees its a race “winning” means FA.

    clubber
    Free Member

    To you. Not necessarily to everyone. Hence the thread 😉

    aracer
    Free Member

    i assume that when the landowner sues you for damages, or blocks the trails. etc you won’t care.

    Sues you for damaging a RoW? If you can point out to me where that has ever happened I might accept you have a point. Blocks a RoW? Well that would be illegal.

    When the landowner in the case of the NT invokes the bylaws, racing on a bridleway means you will be tresspassing, and takes you to court for tresspass

    Which bylaw is that exactly? I don’t see any mention in the law about racing on BWs of it revoking your RoW.

    When the landowner applies for the trail to be closed or rerouted

    The BW? I think you’ll find they have to have rather greater cause than that somebody raced down it one day to do that (even assuming they can prove that actually happened).

    aracer
    Free Member

    Its not racing if nobody else knows its a race and unless everyone agrees its a race “winning” means FA.

    I doubt those who are “racing” care all that much what you think! Most of us are happy that it isn’t officially a race, just that some are upset at people going as fast as possible and trying to be faster than other people unless an event is properly sanctioned.

    jameso
    Full Member

    What we should be doing is working on a concerted campaign to repeal the current law, rather than complaining about people breaking it.

    Agreed. It would need to be a well-researched and PR managed campaign, seems that most riders just prefer to ignore the daft rules, ride cheeky and harmless and stay under the radar. Anything like a ‘race’ on bridleways is a bit more visible, if it forces the issue are we all ready? It’d take some organisation beyond the usual online petitions and fb likes.

    kingkongsfinger
    Free Member

    Spandex is used sometimes in the US instead of lyca.

    It has a ring to it, a certain panache, I use it instead of lyca as it amuses me. (small things blah blah)

    BTW The name “spandex” is an anagram of the word “expands”.

    kingkongsfinger
    Free Member

    mrmo – Member

    Been MTB’ing and racing since 1987, I was born before the “wrapped up in cotton wool culture began and also before the H+S and PC brigade”

    so you were wearing the black alpaca tights then? when they kicked up a fuss over mass start road races?

    Cycle racing on Bridleways has always been banned, nothing to do with H&S. If you don’t like it compaign to get the law changed, or accept it isn’t a race and that you will have to give way as and when necessary.

    One word….spinaci

    sefton
    Free Member

    lycra is a branded elastic

    D0NK
    Full Member

    Spandex is used sometimes in the US instead of lyca.

    and occasionally used by english country acid house bands 🙂

    londonerinoz
    Free Member

    I like racing to the extent that most mass start enduro/challenge/fun events don’t really appeal to me. Who wants to queue to ride sections, or be held up so badly you have to freewheel the best bits?* I’m not the kind of racer who barges past people either, but I do like to ride as hard as my waning speed and fitness allow. I can’t say that I’m excited about the prospect of being routed over lots of boring non technical wide track and even tarmac just to link the decent bits together either. Give me a solid XC course any day, especially if it’s on private land and you get to ride non IMBA compliant sections because the land gets to recover for a year.

    It seems to me that if you think you’re some kind of hero for overtaking hordes of fun riders with little fitness and/or off-road experience, but think XC racing is too serious or poncy, then you might want to think about that fragile ego of yours and have a proper look at racing because for most it’s done for exactly the same reasons of fun and personal challenge.

    The law does seem to be an ass on bridleways, but while it is, even untimed mass or staggered start events don’t seem responsible to me because deep down most of us are competitive to some extent, so it’s bound to end up in bad publicity for mtb at some point giving fuel to the anti mtb access nut jobs.

    * The exception I’ll grant is the Roc D’Azur event. Getting held up by the sheer number of riders was frustrating after puncturing 3 times, but it is just so brilliant I’ll forgive it this weakness. If you get national series point though you should get an earlier start wave though.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    One word….spinaci

    and,

    Nothing wrong with resting your forearms on the tops if your not racing, i find i get a uncomfortable after a couple of miles. I was under the impression commisiares don’t tend to look favourably at it…

    andytherocketeer
    Full Member

    Don’t have a major issue if it is more like an Audax reliability trial (ie “here’s a set of checkpoints, navigate round them, no marshalls, no route markings, can’t average faster than XXXX mph”). Do have an issue if it uses the word “race” anywhere in the promotion, or there is a “winner”, or best time is a key part of taking part.

    So what’s the deal if I just happen to be going for a walk/hike on one of these footpaths/bridlepaths? Will every rider slow down? ring a bell? expect me to step out of the way in good time so that they don’t lose time or flow? Will a marshall stop me and prevent me from walking the footpath/bridlepath? or warn me that there is a “race”, so pay attention to faster than normal cyclists? or just advise me that there are more cyclists than normal, so be aware?

    mrmo
    Free Member

    The BW? I think you’ll find they have to have rather greater cause than that somebody raced down it one day to do that (even assuming they can prove that actually happened).

    quite word with the council and it is amazing what you can achieve….

    stilltortoise
    Free Member

    It seems to me that if you think you’re some kind of hero for overtaking hordes of fun riders with little fitness and/or off-road experience, but think XC racing is too serious or poncy, then you might want to think about that fragile ego of yours and have a proper look at racing because for most it’s done for exactly the same reasons of fun and personal challenge.

    There are a whole load of riders out there who do have fitness and plenty of off-road experience (I’ll include myself in that lot) but are intimidated or put-off by racing. However they’d still like to take part in an event and once on the start line can’t help but compete. I’d suggest that these “challenge” events are the direct equivalent of the grass-roots racing that was the old breeding ground of racers and that many of the riders go on to race “properly”.

    aracer
    Free Member

    quite word with the council and it is amazing what you can achieve….

    Oh yes? How many BWs have been extinguished that you know of? Are you even aware of the procedure required to do so?

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Spoke to another forum member about this today, and it does look like there are grey areas.
    As someone that races road, cyclo cross and a bit of XC I see events as just that, events.
    But as I said as we talked we came across grey areas. I see 24’s as races, but there will be hundreds of folk just having fun. Then there’s the CLIC I did some years back, and they were very clear that that 24 wasn’t a race as it used some BWs.
    So on a personal note, a challenge ride would be a social. I’d ride quick sticks, but I’d chat at food stops or ride alongside someone for a chat.
    In my head what is a race and what isn’t is very clear.
    I suppose you would need to know what the ‘event’ was classed as when the organizers sought all the permissions and insurances? I wonder if the organizers of the event called it a race then.

    londonerinoz
    Free Member

    stilltortoise, it doesn’t sound like you’re in it for the ego trip, so that wasn’t really aimed at people like you, but I wonder why you feel intimidated by racing, it’s not really any less accessible. IMO you swap the crowds for more excitement. It also led me to at least trying road, cyclocross, and track racing with virtually no experience, just a willingness to give it a go.

    stilltortoise
    Free Member

    so that wasn’t really aimed at people like you

    Fair enough, I didn’t think so, but it only reinforces the point I was making which is that there’s a market for an event that isn’t a full on race but isn’t a non-competitive pootle. Maybe such events don’t officially exist, but the very fact Chipps has started this thread and the very responses it has generated show that is how they are approached by many. Does it really matter and if so what can be done about it?

    As for the intimidation factor of races, I’m not sure why I have this, but it’s what put me off joining a (road) cycling club for years, since it always appeared to be about time trial this and race that. I finally joined a club last year and have loved getting out on the club rides with them, but I’m still nervous about competing in a race I know I have no chance of being competitive in. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy giving it some beans on the club rides now and again 🙂

    flap_jack
    Free Member

    Whenever someone says

    “It’s not a race”

    one of my mates says

    “what sort of race isn’t it ?”

    londonerinoz
    Free Member

    Stilltortoise, the best advice I can give to anyone in your market is to find a local race series and give it a go. You might just surprise yourself, I think I came third in my first Beginner race and that was riding from the back because I didn’t think I’d be competitive so I didn’t want to get in anyone’s way at the start. You might be intimidated for 5 minutes at your first ever race, but frankly if you’ve done big events, the organisation and scale is usually distinctly grass roots, and flash bikes and kit does not necessarily indicate a rider is fast or fit.

    Depending on your fitness there are fun/beginner, open, and sport categories designed to give you access. You won’t be racing against the elites, experts, or even the masters, just the weekend warriors and maybe some Juniors. Most people aren’t going to be competitive for the win, top 5, or even the top 10, but they still enjoy racing against those at their approximate level, the course, and the event atmosphere.

    gears_suck
    Free Member

    If there’s more than one person on the trail. It’s a race.

    stilltortoise
    Free Member

    Londonerinoz, I confess the intimidation factor was really in relation to road races. Having “competed” against all sorts of MTB fast boys (including Nick Craig!) at the Singletrack Weekender, I know a race doesn’t have to be intimidating.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    Oh yes? How many BWs have been extinguished that you know of? Are you even aware of the procedure required to do so?

    extinguished, agreed, but rerouted plenty. Some for very stupid reasons and the creation of routes that are crap.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byelaws_in_the_United_Kingdom

    Plenty of scope for criminal prosecution if the landowner sees fit.

    aracer
    Free Member

    Yes, I’m aware of the existence of byelaws – I was asking for the details of the one which meant you were trespassing if racing on a BW.

    Evidence of racing on a BW still isn’t a valid reason for rerouting it, whatever anecdotes you might have.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Yes, I’m aware of the existence of byelaws – I was asking for the details of the one which meant you were trespassing if racing on a BW

    the trespass is probably by the organiser of the race rather than the individuals. The individuals are commiting a highways offence which is a criminal act

    the issues with racing on bridleways are set out quite sensibly here http://imba.org.uk/public-rights-of-way/cycle-racing-on-bridleways/

    based on the responses on here you couldn’t get rider compliance with the restrictions (giving way etc) and therefore I wouldn’t organise an event based on bridleways even if it was legal

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Fair enough, I didn’t think so, but it only reinforces the point I was making which is that there’s a market for an event that isn’t a full on race but isn’t a non-competitive pootle. Maybe such events don’t officially exist, but the very fact Chipps has started this thread and the very responses it has generated show that is how they are approached by many. Does it really matter and if so what can be done about it?

    there are plenty of events that go out of their way to encourage people to “have-a-go”, it’s just percieved as an easier option to enter a “challenge” event

    aracer
    Free Member

    the trespass is probably by the organiser of the race rather than the individuals. The individuals are commiting a highways offence which is a criminal act

    I don’t think an organisor can commit trespass by proxy. In any case I was referring to the previous statement “When the landowner in the case of the NT invokes the bylaws, racing on a bridleway means you will be tresspassing, and takes you to court for tresspass” which clearly refers to the people actually racing.

    I’m aware of the legislation and it is still an anachronism. Would you refuse to organise an event which uses BWs as well as the FPs and multi-use forest tracks currently used by such events (with BWs carefully avoided) where competitors do respect other trail users and manage without conflict? I’ve competed in a few of those, and it is very strange the way BWs have to be treated differently. I think you’re confusing non-acceptance of the current law with lack of courtesy for other users.

    Oh, and I’ve also taken part in events which were strictly speaking illegal under the current law (and an awful lot of events which skirt around the edges on the basis that given free route choice and that everybody goes different ways it’s not racing even though it’s a timed competition where prizes are awarded). I’ve never heard of a conflict between different trail users in any of those events, whatever the stupid law might say.

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