Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 151 total)
  • What's with people racing 'challenge' events? Or just me that isn't? Discuss
  • Pawsy_Bear
    Free Member

    you mean my commute is not a race? My view is why care what others do? Just enjoy the event you can ride at whatever speed you like

    BenHouldsworth
    Free Member

    Chipps, I think you raise some good points regarding incentives for organisers to keep going and the technicalities of bridal ways being used but if there’s a clock running and prizes at the end then some if us will go as fast as we can.

    While I know I’m not going to win I aim for the top third and enjoy trying to out climb, catch others and beat myself up doing it; even our night rides are competitive, it’s just how some of us are 😀

    sefton
    Free Member

    who would still do this kind of event knowing it could be ‘illegal’ to do so?

    stilltortoise
    Free Member

    Is it possible that Chipps is the exception here, being quite happy to pootle around these “not-a-race” events?

    njee20
    Free Member

    For me it’s just a case that they’re often attended by people who aren’t quick enough for ‘real’ racing, so they turn things like that into a race. Ego boost. No different to sportives.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    From the Tour de Ben Nevis blurb

    However, we stress this is more of an event than a race. Those that are super fit and want to race hard will not be disappointed and the special timed sections will spice it up a bit and really bring out the competitors from within. Those who see this as a major personal challenge will be able to pace themselves and enjoy the adventure and wilderness of this remote area.

    Can’t we leave it like that?

    sefton
    Free Member

    For me it’s just a case that they’re often attended by people who aren’t quick enough for ‘real’ racing, so they turn things like that into a race. Ego boost. No different to sportives.

    honestly this is not the case, I know some very competitive racers did the Malham race yesterday.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    Start with the road, i think most know what a road race is, or what an Audax is, so what is a Sportive?

    Move to MTB scene, we have XC races and Downhill races which the rules are fairly clear on what they are. then there are the challenge events, but are they the equivalent of a sportive or an Audax? both, neither???

    As for riders, too many riders don’t want to loose so choose not to race, but do ride in a manner that is almost racing. but on open tracks where they can’t “loose” except to mates. If you don’t do well at a challenge event you can’t loose, if you do well then you get bragging rights it seems.

    muppetWrangler
    Free Member

    Is it possible that Chipps is the exception here, being quite happy to pootle around these “not-a-race” events?

    I’ve entered a few road sportives and have never once considered them a race. The closest I got to that mentality was prior to the advent of bike GPS when I did use the events to try and keep up a good pace as it was the only time I would ride on unfamiliar roads without having to stop and whip out a map every few miles. But since GPS now allows me to do this on any ride I’ve started to treat sportives as more of a communal cycling day out.

    Dibbs
    Free Member

    There’s a similar situation with the Exmoor Explorer and it was always made very clear at the start briefing that “this is not a race” as it was held on a combination of bridleways and permissive paths. The finish times used to be posted in alphabetical order in an attempt to make it more difficult to compare times.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    The finish times used to be posted in alphabetical order in an attempt to make it more difficult to compare times.

    but why publish times at all?

    Serious question it is a challenge, so what purpose is served by publishing a time when anyone can get the results dump them in excel and then claim to have finished in X position??? If you want to know how long you took that is what cycle computers and watches can do. Only difference is you can’t know what other peoples time was.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    thinking, I can never remember seeing results published in any form for the HONC, i can remember getting given a finish time when i have done it but no more.

    muppetWrangler
    Free Member

    What mrmo said. Remove all timing except a fairly generous maximum allowable time (like an audax) so that the organisers can have a set time that they can start packing up for the day.

    clubber
    Free Member

    There are never results for the HONC other than mentioning who was first home which I guess is a result of sorts but…

    brakes
    Free Member

    For me it’s just a case that they’re often attended by people who aren’t quick enough for ‘real’ racing, so they turn things like that into a race.

    is this a put-down? are you condemning them for not being quick enough to race? if you are, then maybe you’re part of the problem.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    and i suppose if you want to push the Audax thing further, introduce check point opening times, IF you arrive early you can’t be said to have completed until your card is stamped….which means standing around until someone lets you leave.

    Then you can race from point to point, but you just get to stand around for longer.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Is it not the case that most road racers are only as quick as they appear because they have a bunch to hide in/behind and that winning is as much about “race-craft” as anything else? If everyone raced TT style then only the truly fastest would win.

    Sancho
    Free Member

    only issue I have is that these events are aimed at getting times up so if you just want to pootle then why enter, spaces are limited, you may as well save your money, and let someone who does want to ride it as intended the chance to do so. too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round, I dont mine if youre slow but want to challenge yourself, but dont just waste the limited places.
    you can go bimble round any time.

    clubber
    Free Member

    njee20 » For me it’s just a case that they’re often attended by people who aren’t quick enough for ‘real’ racing,

    Probably but hardly suprising. I used to road race and was decent enough at it. Now I’d get shelled out very quickly so there’d be no point me going to a road race. If I did a sportive, I could to some extent replicate road racing even in my shocking state of fitness.

    FWIW, I don’t really do sportives but I can see why people do and race them.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    njee20 – Member
    For me it’s just a case that they’re often attended by people who aren’t quick enough for ‘real’ racing, so they turn things like that into a race. Ego boost. No different to sportives.

    I expect better from you. We’re not all super fit race Elite gods and never will be.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    only issue I have is that these events are aimed at getting times up so if you just want to pootle then why enter, spaces are limited, you may as well save your money, and let someone who does want to ride it as intended the chance to do so. too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round, I dont mine if youre slow but want to challenge yourself, but dont just waste the limited places.
    you can go bimble round any time.

    so they are races then? which makes most of them illegal?

    muppetWrangler
    Free Member

    only issue I have is that these events are aimed at getting times up

    Really? I always thought racing (and training) was for getting times up and that these non race events were about increasing participation and having a nice day out with cyclists that you wouldn’t otherwise ride with and probably in an area that you wouldn’t normally ride.

    njee20
    Free Member

    is this a put-down? are you condemning them for not being quick enough to race? if you are, then maybe you’re part of the problem.

    No it wasn’t meant to be, perhaps I should have used the word “perceive” in there somewhere! I think people perceive that ‘real’ racing can be too competitive/difficult, so they do non-competitive events and turn them into their own competitions. These things are usually referred to as a race, even when they’re clearly not.

    Is it not the case that most road racers are only as quick as they appear because they have a bunch to hide in/behind and that winning is as much about “race-craft” as anything else? If everyone raced TT style then only the truly fastest would win.

    In part for sure, but I’m prepared to wager the average road racer is fitter than the average sportive participant, and I know plenty of MAMIL types who will gladly tell everyone they did a race at the weekend, meaning a sportive.

    I don’t mean it in a derogatory fashion at all, it’s a certain subset of riders, who I think are drawn to events like this, and display the attitude Chipps talks about.

    Not saying in any way that everyone who enters is of that mindset, or that indeed those who are like that aren’t necessarily very quick racers.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Sure, but the sort of stuff you do isn’t “real” racing either, is it? It’s not like you’re competing with the really fit/fast guys, so what’s the point? 🙂

    njee20
    Free Member

    Very true, but where did I make such a comparison, or say “like me”, or anything like that?

    kingkongsfinger
    Free Member

    I entered it as a race, it said it was a race. I had trained for it, I did nowt the two days before on the bike so I was fresh. I set off like it was a race (anyone in the 9.25 am start wave see my greyhound out of the trap start to confirm?) Got 41.4mph downhill on a xc gheyboi bike, thought it was good course, did not finish though as my spandex was not warm enough, will try and WIN IT next year.

    I got three KOM Strava uphill segments on the route as I use this for training and looking back at the stats.

    I also race on the road with BC+LVRC, TT’s and BCF XC races.

    So what??????

    I also live on the door step of Rivington and organise un official XC knarlfest races round there with my mates (This is the how MTB all started “back in the day ya know”) PM if you fancy a burn up around this area (dropper post/body armour/45 litre ruck sac riders need not apply)

    BTW Waste of time this thread.

    njee20
    Free Member

    ^^ That encapsulates the sort of attitude I was thinking of just perfectly! 🙄

    I’m hoping it’s ironic!?

    BenHouldsworth
    Free Member

    Kingkongsfinger, you’ve just Alphamaled yourself into my affections 😛

    kingkongsfinger
    Free Member

    njee20 – Member
    ^^ That encapsulates the sort of attitude I was thinking of just perfectly!
    I’m hoping it’s ironic!?

    What’s wrong with it, break it down. Nothing wrong with it factually, its all he truth.

    It was race, end of.

    Been MTB’ing and racing since 1987, I was born before the “wrapped up in cotton wool culture began and also before the H+S and PC brigade”

    (Although we need the above for many of the numpties that ride bikes nowadays that are blindly lead and told what they “NEED” by magazines/websites and forums like this)

    Was a good RACE EVENT which was ultimately a bit grim and let down purely by the weather.

    djglover
    Free Member

    For every ‘subset’ of riders, there is an equal and opposite ‘subset’ of inverted snobs looking over the rim of their glasses at them, tutting at them for not being in a ‘proper’ race, or indeed not knowing it wasn’t a race (according to them(ETA:the inverted ‘snobs’, not the subset of riders))

    aracer
    Free Member

    perhaps I should have used the word “perceive” in there somewhere! I think people perceive that ‘real’ racing can be too competitive/difficult, so they do non-competitive events and turn them into their own competitions

    My perceptions of how tough real racing is are based on finding myself right at the back of a proper XC race despite not being all that unfit – when I know I’d still have been up towards the front of any “challenge” type event (yes I know it’s not a race, but anybody who reckons nobody will be trying to go faster than the next person even if they have no timing at all is rather naive). As mentioned above, there are several reasons why people prefer challenge events to “proper” racing – firstly that it is too hard and your average punter (who would still like to compete against other punters) will find themselves off the back, which is of course a self-fulfilling prophecy as the punters don’t turn up. I’m old enough to have raced back when XC racing was popular, and despite having been a much worse rider then, didn’t experience the same issue. Also challenge events get to see lots of the countryside on a varying route, rather than round and round the same little course. Finally there’s the distance involved – challenges tend to be longer, which certainly suits me personally.

    It is very similar in a way to the debate about road racing vs. sportives. I always reckoned lower cat road races were too short and on terrain which wasn’t challenging enough – almost every one I ever entered finished in a bunch sprint as there was nothing to split the field. A totally different challenge to sportives in terms of terrain. I’ll wave my willy here as I was once the fastest finisher in a little local sportive – I’m not all that sure we were racing though, as I certainly never really had the intention of trying to beat the other chaps who were in the little group we formed at the front (we even stopped to wait for one chap at the top of a climb part way round, and then when it was down to 2 I stopped to wait for the other chap when he had a mechanical), it was just a case of the others dropping off the pace in the tougher bits of the course.

    SonicBoomBoy
    Free Member

    njee20
    ^^ That encapsulates the sort of attitude I was thinking of just perfectly!
    I’m hoping it’s ironic!?

    (encapsulates) In what respect njee? 😯

    edlong
    Free Member

    I have a new favourite line from this thread, thanks.

    did not finish though as my spandex was not warm enough

    aracer
    Free Member

    I woory because I have sat down with some of the people who if impacted by this type of event be writing very strong letter to the local council, NT and local landowners with every intent of using it as a case for reducing MTB access, they sit on the Local Access Forums and have long memories and bear grudges

    A strongly worded letter? Ooh I’m worried already. Seriously these guys don’t actually make the law on access, so I’m struggling to see how they can prevent us from riding on BWs no matter how upset they get. If MTB access was being significantly increased by such forums, and this was likely to be set back then there might be an issue, but it isn’t is it?

    The elephant in the room here is the archaic law about racing on BWs. Yes we can legally race on FPs (as I have many times), but as soon as you meet a BW you have to cross then you’re tiptoeing around the law. Oh, but if you strap an engine to your bicycle then all of a sudden it is then legal to race on a BW. The big issue here isn’t non-compliance with the law, it’s the stupidity of the law. It did even get brought up in parliament during the debate on the most recent bill about access, but the minister concerned appeared to completely misunderstand the issue and dismissed it out of hand (if anybody can remind me what that bill is and so give me a clue where to start I’ll try and dig up the relevant quotes from Hansard). What we should be doing is working on a concerted campaign to repeal the current law, rather than complaining about people breaking it.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    Been MTB’ing and racing since 1987, I was born before the “wrapped up in cotton wool culture began and also before the H+S and PC brigade”

    so you were wearing the black alpaca tights then? when they kicked up a fuss over mass start road races?

    Cycle racing on Bridleways has always been banned, nothing to do with H&S. If you don’t like it compaign to get the law changed, or accept it isn’t a race and that you will have to give way as and when necessary.

    clubber
    Free Member

    local council, NT and local landowners

    Pretty sure that the last two can restrict access if they choose and it’s not actually a RoW…

    weeksy
    Full Member

    I wish you’d get over this obsession with whether it’s legal or not fella, quite simply, we don’t CARE !!!! Not in the slightest…

    D0NK
    Full Member

    too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round, I dont mine if youre slow but want to challenge yourself, but dont just waste the limited places.
    you can go bimble round any time.

    this seems to be completely against the (my perceived) ethos of a sportive, ie a big ride around a well marked course in an area you may not know, with a bunch of fellow competitors there keeping your spirits up and helping you on.

    of course it depends whether it’s a proper sportive or is actually a race that can’t afford full insurance/find a decent course so is mislabelled a sportive.

    twinklydave
    Full Member

    At the semantic level, calling something a challenge is going to make people ‘challenge’ themselves. Usually by trying to complete the challenge quickly, as opposed to seeing who can stare off at the view for the longest…though I kind of like this idea!

    I guess if it was called a ‘bimble’ or something similar you’d get a different type of entrant and a different atmosphere.

    It’s unlikely the organisers gave it the wrong name by accident, so they were probably looking to take on some of the attributes that the word ‘challenge’ inspires.

    jameso
    Full Member

    Interesting read on where MTB is these days.

    imo the appeal of the early (late 80s-very early 90s) races was that an average rider wasn’t miles off the pace aside from the front few and could have some fun during the event. Whereas now XC races seem to be a smaller, faster crowd? Or at least that seems to be common perception. So ‘events’ pull in the average riders who still want a bit of race sport without the pressure or seriousness associated with ‘proper racing’, as well as fast riders who want a different challenge outside of lap-based races.
    Since NPS-style racing is almost a side-line niche now, events are filling the need for the majority and that seems to be close to where it was in the early days.

    Bike events should be whatever you make of them, as long as you’re not one of those shouty idiots barging past people in a race for 27th place.

    too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round, I dont mine if youre slow but want to challenge yourself, but dont just waste the limited places.

    edit to add – that’s not far off the kind of thinking that killed off the big XC races first time round. I think there was a good article in Privateer about this, about how they’d reverse the start grids last minute just to annoy the serious types who’d gone to the front to get the best start. And that was late 80s. Worth looking up. There’s a place for serious racing and there’s a place for a mix of racers on a day off, mid-pack challengers, pootlers and people with silly hats on all doing a good loop somewhere nice.

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