Not a complaining thread, I enjoyed Mayhem again this year, but would be interested in views on the course length.

My side – I would prefer to see a shorter course, in particular get rid of of all the fairly pointless snaking around the campsite/start finish area.

There’s still plenty of scope to take in the good bits (by good I mean challenging climbing/descending/singletrack).

The top teams can do double laps if it’s not worth the changeover after an 8 mile(ish) lap.

If it is muddy (it usually is at some point) then a shorter course reduces the agony from a 2 hour shove/mount/shove to something a little more bearable.

For ‘less talented’ teams (like ours) then it gives potential to keep ticking laps off at a morale boosting rate and a bit more flexibility around riding orders.

And will hopefully encourage riders to take a last lap in rather than lurk.

As I said – not a complaint, just be interested in anyone’s views.

I know in my heart that if I want laps to take less time I should get fitter….

Shorter course means more riders crammed closer together though…

Also means it would get churned up more.

……… and more load on the timing system ……… and the changeover area ……….

and the …..

What they said.

Personally I thought the course was a good length, really enjoyed the snaking through the campsite especially with the nite time banter 😉

It was my first mayhem, but at just over an hour for a lap I thought it was ideal for a 4 man team.

Insurance is worked on on a rider per mile/km basis. ie. A course of x length has a maximum insured rider total of y.

If the course was shorter the limit on riders would have to be reduced. The event is sold out in a few days as it is so a shorter would mean your chance of getting an entry at all would be reduced.

Not saying the course shouldn’t be shortened … just pointing out one of the considerations.

I thought it was about right.

Pat said at the prize giving that the reason it was longer was to do less damage to the site… and have less unrideable areas.

Some of the singletrack in plasticine wood was still churned pretty badly by Sunday morning with lots of braking bumps, ridges going round the corners etc. but it was ALL rideable, and I don’t consider myself to be a STW riding god. I’m a mincer on an XC hardtail.

Lots more trackside camping was a good thing this year too. (even if some did tape off more than they needed. Idiots)

My observations of the course this year (as a spectator due to injury)

The start/finish area was not spectator friendly and an absolute pain to get to. Team mates said the arena area wasn’t as good to ride as in previous years. Also what I think really helps is having a nice fast return back to the finish line, not an uphill slog.

The course… my mate one the running race on the Friday night, well done Mr Lewis! I think he said his lap was some thing like 1hr 9mins. Thats only 25 or so mins slower than the fastest Pro got round on a bike FFS. There is some thing wrong there. I don’t think its that the course is hard, it just saps so much energy.

I remember it from back in the day in Sandwell. The course didnt sap your energy as much and you could just blast each lap, which IMO made for a more rewarding 24hrs.

It would be good if they could clear the course of grass before the start of the race… maybe let some MX bikes have a few laps, or get out with the weed killer 🙂

One other observation from the last long downhill, some peoples language was very colourful explaining how much fun they were having riding down the bumps.

Finally full sus v. hardtail watching lots of people coming down the last big decent you would expect full sussers to be quicker, er well no not all the time! Some people were making very hard work of it where as some hardtails or rigids would be going way quicker than FS’ers. Just shows that full sus is a skills compensator for a few people 🙂

As Mark says, partly insurance, partly to fit more riders in.

Also, it’s bloody knackering if you do a lap in 35 mins, means less rest time for the team. An hour is about perfect for the average team of 4 or 5.

The course is ideal length. the snaking through the campsite is dull if you don’t enter into the banter / skids / stunt booter opportunities.

The British cycling techincal requirement is for a course length to be dictated at either 35 riders per km of 50 per mile of course in old money. Thats a guideline aimed at the maximum number on the course at any one time and is not cast in tablets of stone. However there is sound logic behind it.

Regarding Mayhem, the issue is about finding a venue suitably large to take the event, which is also prepared to allow an 8 – 10 mile scar to be formed through its grounds. Personally I think Pat does a fantastic job of turning this particular pigs ear into a silk purse for one weekend a year. No doubt its not perfect, but anyone who organises any event let alone one on this scale will appreciate how hard it is.

Total respect is due IMHO

The idea of courses going through campsites is for armosphere, it adds something that you don’t get if it just skims by.

(by good I mean challenging climbing/descending/singletrack).

These become a nightmare in the early hours and at the end of races, increasing risk of injury. They will also cheese a lot people off, there’s a huge variety who enter races. From first time riders never been on a bike for years to Pros, it has cater for this.

There’s a lot more to it than just walking around with pegs a roll of tape. I was taken back just by what’s involved when I firs started volunteering to help at events.

Depends on the weather…

If we’d had proper rain it would have been way too long. If it had been dry and dusty it would have been spot on.

As it was I thought it was fine, but I wouldn’t have complained if it was a bit shorter 😉

Lap length was good for us 45-50 mins per lap is a nice time length to write a schedule for and it’s easier on the head doing 8/9 laps rather than 12/13…

Our star turn was doing double laps in 45/46 mins each. Legend!

The only thing I’d have liked was to have the main grass climb split up a bit as it was really hard going for us so god knows what the masses thought to it. The campsite bit is good for morale/banter but it was pretty tough going. Glad it wasn’t wetter though as it’d have been an obscenely hard lap…

My only criticism of the lap length is that with the teams of ten generally being made up of novices, if it had got wet they could easily have been lapping in well over 2 hours, which would mean that a lot of them would have only got one lap in.
I’d rather see the fun teams reduced to 6 members than the lap distance reduced.

If they’re that slow they should enter a team of 5.

I thought it was excellent. It would be a shame to cut any of the trails we rode this time. I was very happy the sloppy bit down to the lake wasn’t in – that bit never dries out and is reliably terrible. The trails rode fantastically – the best Mayhem lap for a long time. I thought the final descent was a bit of a waste of height at the top – before the bombholes it went straight down the hill on the grass. Is there a way that bit could be extended? Was really fast though 🙂

Best Mayhem for me.

GB

If they’re that slow they should enter a team of 5.

They don’t know how hard it will be. So many of these teams of 10 are “corporate” types, a bunch of business people who are doing it for team building or charity, some won’t have been on a bike in years!

They have no clue as to how hard it will be, how to pace themselves or anything and that’s part of the fun of it, seeing such a wide variety of people on the course. Where else can mere mortals ride with Olympic or National stars like Liam Killeen and Nick Craig?

It’s also why you can’t have Mega Technical North Shore of Death and Rocky Singletrack of Doom features – everyone needs to be able to ride (most of) the course. Bottom line is if the course wasn’t technical enough, you weren’t going fast enough!

The only changes I’d make would be to put more chicanes in that final descent, preferably with bermed corners and have it feed directly into the main arena to give the spectators a bit more to see. As it was all the bits where bike handling skills really made a difference were hidden from the non-riders.

preferably with bermed corners

I’m sure the landowner wouldn’t have the slightest qualms about having their land dug up and reshaped for one 24 hour event in a year, nor the organiser any issues with the extra work.

I’m pretty sure everyone would prefer a purpose built course with every feature they’ve ever dreamt of included in, obviously including the entire lap being down hill. However….. then reality kicks in

Why is no-one complaining about how long the run was? That’s the only thing that needs changing IMO.
I guess it needs to be long enough to clear the course of walkers, but there were still people walking along the track to the kenda klimb as I was riding there. Take it out of the arena and away from the course next time!

I reckon 10 miles is spot on for course length, it means that you don’t get massive parades of people through the single track sections. It was the best Mayhem course I’ve ridden there(I missed last year). I really enjoyed the descents, you could really fly down them, clocked 31.6 mph on the final one.
The singletrack was good and the climbs although energy sapping weren’t difficult and you could ride the whole course.
If I was to make changes I would put more technical stuff in as I made up places in the singletrack and descents that I was losing on the climbs, but that just means I need to get fitter.

It’s not about the length – it’s about the reward for the climbing. The uphills were awesome, the downhills were crap.

Very interesting comments, looks like a shorter course = a smaller event

On balance I did enjoy the course – and now understand it much better

And to be 100% clear, nothing I wrote is meant to detract from the organisers, course designers and all the other fantastic people who make Mayhem a reality, my hat is off to them every year I’ve been…

The run was ridiculous. Riders need to be warned of run of that distance. I did laugh when the quad went over the bridge and turned left…

At least there were only small bottlenecks, though…

GB

Short run = Everyone hitting the singletrack together resulting in most people pushing their bike round a good deal of the first lap due to congestion.

You don’t have to run, and some didn’t.

Yes I realise that – that length run is ok as long as the riders are warned what to expect. 2.5k is quite far… I heard Vic say it was that far once over the PA but he said it as if it was a joke!!

You sure it was that far? I didn’t think I could actually run that far!

It was deffo 2.5km, far too far, it’s a bike race after all! 1-1.5km is plenty I would have thought, and yes, you do have to RUN if you want a good placing overall, well at least I had to.

My lap 1 man said that there were bottlenecks even with the long run.

Maybe it’ll be 3.5K next year. 🙂

There certainly were bottlenecks! The gap in the fence after the first climb took almost 5 minutes to get through. Then the muddy drop to the right in the woods was held up by the non-rider numpties, singletrack was walking pace… Exactly like i expected to be honest.

It took me half an hour to do the walk. Even so I got caught in a bottleneck in the plasticine woods for 15 mins, so any shorter and a lot of the front runners may have been caught up too which isnt fair for proper racers.

I thought the course was one of teh best yet though, quite manageable on a ss and had a bit of everything. The bit through the campsite was great for morale as plenty of people were cheering riders on. My most enjoyable one so far, thanks to everyone involved (organisers, marshalls, riders and spectators!)

It was my first Mayhem, The course was tough but why should it be easy? I had the pleasure of having to go first and the run wasn’t fun but the traffic would’ve been far worse on the first lap if it was shorter. The mud in places wasn’t fun to ride but there you go. The climbs were tough but I got a huge amount of satisfaction from beating them. The last downhill was a blast, yes it was rutted and grassy but it’s not like you’re riding around a trail center. Its a private estate, what can you do.

I’ll be back next year, fitter fast and with the same stupid grin on my face.

Thanks to all involved with organising. I had a great weekend!

Personally I prefer shorter courses so you do lots of quick laps and and have mainly single track and not grass and fire road riding to get the distance up. For me MM is a bit to long but I can see a lot of people love that. I’m not into 50km – 100km rides as they seem dull to me as there is always loads of road or bridleways but some people just love long distances. Closet roadies if you ask me! 😉

I think that’s why the Bikefest in Bristol always does well as you can really get the stop watch out, save a minute or two per lap and can get just one more in before the end. With MM one slow lap and it kills that off as there is too much time to make up.

I think MM should be around 45 min for the average team

i really enjoyed the descents. i thought they were all good fun. i was blasting past loads of people on downhills that had passed me on the climbs. chasing (trying to) guy martin down the final descent at midnight was real funny. the climbs just kept on going though. and going, and going. and if your moaning that it was too bumpy for your full rigid singlespeed, you were on the wrong bike.

The length could have posed problems for slower teams in the night had it rained. The fastest riders would have struggled to do 1hr 20mins in really bad conditions from past experiences with time differences in laps and you can usually double that for slow teams. That’s pushing light burn times.

Oh – and I didn’t think it was that hilly really compared to previous years. The downs were great once I had some good advice from Pat C-J – don’t brake.

The bit thorugh the campsite was fantastic – it has to be kept in!!! The heckling was awesome.[*]

I agree with Funkydunc’s early post, the changeover was an uneccesary pain in the backside, I guess it wasn’t positioned there by accident, probably to get you to pass by shops, cafes, and it should have had shelter, In the dark of night it was a miserable spot, luckily the weather held. Sort of. Course length, excellent, campsite banter, ditto. Jez’s jump down by the lake? well, he’s no carpenter is he!

the climbs just kept on going though. and going, and going. and if your moaning that it was too bumpy for your full rigid singlespeed, you were on the wrong bike.

I dunno, rigid 29er here, spent most of my time hoping for more hills, took loads of people. If you found the hills too much you were on the wrong bike.