Given the discontent brewing in the ‘Harry’s Arctic Heroes’ thread, let’s get down to business with the main issue…

Is there a point to Constitutional Monarchy in 2011?

BTW, the strongest argument I’ve encountered to date comes from my Mum, who says:

“Well, you wouldn’t want David Cameron on your stamps would you?”

Personally, I wouldn’t. I’d go for Gee Atherton, but that’s just me.

Let battle commence.

“Well, you wouldn’t want David Cameron on your stamps would you?”

Most convincing argument I’ve heard too.

I fail to see any point in them

I am not a fan whilst arguments can be made about tourism income [ think this is false] and that they are better than a president [ not great point IMHO]. However it is ridiculous that in the 21st C we let an accident of birth grant someone as a monarch. The aristocracy, landed gentry, entrenched interest in this country helps keep us backward.
I may be less inclined to oppose them if they had absolutely no political power – the current system relies on the belief they wont exercise these powers

inheriting money is one thing, but inheriting power is just mental.

But, the royals we’ve got aren’t actually that bad, most of the headliners seem to do a decent job.

Queenie, Phil, and Charlie seem to work very hard.

i think they know that the moment we get a duffer on the throne, we’ll kick the lot of them into a ditch somewhere.

imho etc.

I fail to see the point in most of ‘modern society’

most of the headliners seem to do a decent job

eh? Prince Andrew did a great job with international business didnt he? What exactly do they do?

I fail to see the point in most of ‘modern society’

But that is a construct of lots of different things, the Royal familly are a specifically set up group of rulers who the next best thing to **** all and serve no purpose

Given the choice id remove all of their wealth and priviledge. They could keep their title if it meant that much to them, means nothing to me.

I’m mostly in the “do without” camp.

But along the lines of

you wouldn’t want David Cameron on your stamps

I wouldn’t want our Armed Services swearing an oath of alliegiance / loyalty to Thatcher / Blair / Cameron (or any other politician)

And before any wise crack points out that the PM has the Exceutive Power – yes I know that, but the idea of the Army / Navy / Air Force having a (dubiously) elected politician as Commander in Chief (al la USofA) scares the hell out of me.

Scandinavian style monarchy, I say.

I don’t like the idea or the reality of a Monarchy.

The unwavering, simpering deference towards undeserving parasites is not how I wish this country to portray itself to the rest of the world, as well as being harmful to us as a nation.

And you don’t have to have your head of state on your stamps 🙄

“most of the headliners seem to do a decent job”

eh? Prince Andrew did a great job with international business didnt he? What exactly do they do?

well, i did say most of them…

i suppose they attract attention, whatever they do, wherever they go, they attract attention, and people listen to them.

they have influence – and they use it (domestically, and internationally).

most of them seem to behave themselves most of the time, so we tolerate them, they amuse us more than they annoy us (as a nation), sooner or later we’ll get a duffer on the throne, and we’ll start the process of getting rid of them.

i do think they set a bad example – we can not hope to live in a meritocracy until they go.

With out current system, I can see the point in a monarchy as a form of “checks and balances” and head of the judiciary and armed forces. However, as they exercise very little power in reality, they are no more than expensive figureheads.

Also, if we eventually go to a properly elected house of lords, as we should do, then that will take away some of the need for the monarchy as a supposedly impartial influence.

Edit: I would look more positively on having a monarchy if they actually trimmed back the hangers on and actually gave them some proper powers. However, I do still struggle to see past the whole rights of succession thing.

I love them because I got a day off for a wedding.

Lets hope we get a holiday when they croak too.

TBH – I don’t have a problem with the current lot. I guess there’s some tourism and trade relations benefit, and I don’t know that we’d be better off with a President. However, they are only the tip of the iceberg. It’s the whole “House of Lords” bit that I don’t agree with and the two are very closely tied together.

Opening things and shaking hands doesn’t seem that hard, I wouldn’t mind living their life for a bit. I’d like to see the queen deal with some of my more ‘demanding’ customers LOL.

How about the army swearing to serve the people rather than the queen or the prime minister?

No point in them, waste money. The past few years watching them struggling to maintain public opinion in their favour with the ‘well intentioned’ PR stunts is laughable.

How about the army swearing to serve the people rather than the queen or the prime minister?

Spot on.

Okay, devil’s advocate time. A 2-minute Internet trawl has provided the following plus points:

Tradition/cultural security
Tourism
Semblance of order
Figurehead to illustrate diplomacy
It’s just British
As ready-made ambassadors the royal family do a lot of good-willing about the globe and that seems to genuinely impress some folks out there.
A royal seal of approval (Royal Airforce, Royal Mail) may not mean its best, but it does add a shine or prestige.
Scotland and England may only play nice because of them both having the same monarch

I’m trying to balance the thread here. Probably failing… 🙄

Tradition. 1000+ years of history. Which is more than the USA and Australia can manage together, so it’s worth it for that alone! 🙂

Windsor farm shop has the best ham I have ever tasted.

Tradition. 1000+ years of history. Which is more than the USA and Australia can manage together, so it’s worth it for that alone!

What the hell has that got to do with anything? Just because it is “traditional”, it doesn’t mean it is right or is best for the country, or the world for that matter, today or in the future.

Here’s a snippet conversation I actually had with Prince Andrew:

I’m polishing wine glasses, aware that PA is in the vicinity and a power lunch is cooking.

A short man approaches me from behind. I didn’t see him there. I jump, startled.

PA: Ah, preparing victuals for the masses are we?
Camo16 (who hasn’t yet recognised PA): Um… yes?
PA: Ah, good.
(PA exits, a wave of realisation hits Camo16)
Camo16: Dammit!

Not to the point, but it’s going in my memoirs.

I have the biscuits BTW..

The Monarchy, as is, is just a representation of the huge divide that still exists. One of a society that believes in a hieratical order combined with an acceptance that that ruler was/is right and divine to hold such a position.
Thankfully we live in a questioning modern society that is free to think and act on own free will and choose to follow/believe in whatever they so wish.
Currently they are proving to move with the times, all be it slowly, through transition into one of little interest and political influence. HMQ is guiding the Royals down a route of social influence with practical application (hence Harrys Heros etc.) which is to be applauded IMHumbleO, this is where they should be, gaining social responsibility to help others less fortunate and in need.
If the questioner asks whether they provide value for money, then IMHumbleO, no they don’t, yet. Once the Royal list is limited to two and the Land they own returned to the people then ok, until that time we’re stuck with an outdated social order dressed up as a tourism income driver.
All IMHO of course.

I do have a question if I may be soooo bold.. When in that there London, why do the “royal” cars have funny number plates NNNNLLLXXX Anyone know why?

Our “Head of State” model would be expensive whether we had a Monarch or a President.

As a small island state, with lingering illusions of grandeur and an over-elevated sense of our place in the world, we would still bestow a glorious London residence, country retreat, etc etc upon any elected president 🙁

In 2000 I met the Icelandic President at the official Presidential residence near Reyjavik. This was a smart, modern, relatively modest fjordside compound. The President doesn’t live there – he has his own place in Reyjavik (IIRC) and gets a car out to the “official” residence when “official” business requires it. This is how it should be done.

In the UK we would still go with all the grace and favour, ceremonial, status driven, expensive BS – even if we had a Pressi

below – Icelandic President’s official residence…

Tradition. 1000+ years of history. Which is more than the USA and Australia can manage together, so it’s worth it for that alone!

yes they were absolutely unpopulated before they were “found” and nothing happened there before we invaded conquered and populated them 🙄
the first one was French and the current lot german …1000 years of interbreeding is indeed culture

That first photo looks like it is a work of Sketchup lol.

How about the army swearing to serve the people rather than the queen or the prime minister?

One of the most intelligent things ever said on any thread about the Royals on here.

We still have them cos we’re British and too flippin insular, conservative and small-minded to think up a suitable alternative (as have many other nations what are doing ok really).

Personally, I don’t mind them as people, but I don’t agree with the ‘Divine Right To Rule’ thing, as that’s a load of cobblers. So, basically we have a ‘Head of State’ whose entire position and existence is based on a bunch of lies told to a load of unenlightened peasants over a thousand years ago.

We live in more enlightened times. About bloody time we sorted things out propply, rather than sticking with the same tired old crap we have. The monarchy perpetuates the social divide and class system more than any other institution, is undemocratic and downright anachronistic.

It’s like a bit of mould in the corner of the ceiling. As long as it doesn’t seem to be getting any worse, we’re content to sit there and ignore it….

Ignore teh number plate thingy, I’ve found out what I’m looking for.

It’s like a bit of mould in the corner of the ceiling. As long as it doesn’t seem to be getting any worse, we’re content to sit there and ignore it…

😆

No but it’s true though, innit? Having seen the Royal Wedding malarky, all that money wasted at a time when the poorest in Britain are feeling the Cuts the hardest, it’s just disgusting that so much wealth was flaunted before people who are having to suffer job losses, deepening debt and lessening prospects of decent Higher Education for their kids.

Great Britain. My Arse.

I wonder what the result would be if there was a national poll about the Royals – what would be the % split of republicans, can’t-be-bothered-either-ways and all-out monarchists.

The problem is that results from threads like this and from small-scale polls are described as ‘indicative only’ – all the can’t-be-bothered-either-ways can’t-be-bothered to give their opinion… so maybe we’ll never know for sure.

Until the revolution.

No but it’s true though, innit? Having seen the Royal Wedding malarky, all that money wasted at a time when the poorest in Britain are feeling the Cuts the hardest, it’s just disgusting that so much wealth was flaunted before people who are having to suffer job losses, deepening debt and lessening prospects of decent Higher Education for their kids.

Although I agree with you, alot of the “massess” didn’t seem to mind though, did they?

It’s almost as if you waive a bit of bling under someone’s nose and they immediately forget their troubles. It’s a bit like the fact that if you walk into 90% of all council houses, you will find the largest LCD TVs you have ever seen, even though the residents are complaining they can’t afford to feed their kids.

<< clutches at straws >>

I imagine they prop up the hunting, shooting, polo and castle maintenance sectors.

😕

I don’t mind the royals, and they don’t really have any say in what goes on. Do they?

thanks elfin, wasn’t me, GF’s comment 😳

Although I agree with you, alot of the “massess” didn’t seem to mind though, did they?

Well, yes they did. I know very few people who were pro and many who were anti the whole overblown, overpriced farce.
They didn’t get interviewed by the media though. Funny that.

It’s a bit like the fact that if you walk into 90% of all council houses, you will find the largest LCD TVs you have ever seen, even though the residents are complaining they can’t afford to feed their kids.

Jesus, is it that time already?

I wonder what the result would be if there was a national poll about the Royals – what would be the % split of republicans, can’t-be-bothered-either-ways and all-out monarchists.

not a national poll as such but …………

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2772/ReutersIpsos-MORI-Monarchy-poll.aspx

this thread surely proves my point on the Harry’s hero’s thread they are just a load of scavenging PR whore’s

It’s a bit like the fact that if you walk into 90% of all council houses, you will find the largest LCD TVs you have ever seen

Erm, I think that might be a slight exaggeration; I live on a Council Estate, and the largest flat-screen tellies I’ve seen are in the posh flats down by the marina. But yes, I do get your point that people are seduced by materialism to the point that they forget how to be a community.

As for the Royal Wedding, Riots and that; people see others not actually ‘working’ particularly hard, and living the life of Riley. No wonder then that there’s not much of a ‘work ethic’ about these days. They don’t see Queenie et al ‘struggling’ to get by, and succeeding through ‘hard work’, do they? So what sort of message does that send out? It’s pretty clear, that unless you’re pretty bloody fortunate and very clever, that hard work alone will not bring you all the ‘rewards’ we seem to be promised. A credit card might though…

I’m sure there are some figures out there that demonstrate that the Royals are actually profitable to the state overall.

Personally, I’m not comfortable with the notion that anyone has the “right” to be born into such privildge simply as a result of tradition and bloodline, when there are so many who do far more for the benefit of society yet without the priviledges that the Royals receive.

But life isn’t fair. If we are going to stamp out things that aren’t right/don’t seem fair, there’s a heck of a lot to sort out before we get to the Windsors.

Provided they remain relatively cash neutral to the state, i can’t get too bothered about it.