Yes, that’s why people are risking death. Substantial benefits payments? The average UK asylum seeker gets £35 per week of which only £10 comes in cash. So you think people are spending thousands of pounds and abandoning everything they have, for £1820 a year

House (ok… flat in Rochdale!) Healthcare, substantial benefits and a safe environment (possibly not Rochdale then!)plus the ability to beg, borrow or steal….or perhaps even work for cash etc.

They are not abandoning much, I think.

Edit: I’m obviously talking about economic migrants not the terrified families forced from their homelands. You tend to see a certain type of person trying to hitch a ride to the UK from Calais.

Actually… now we’re on to Rochdale, it looks like we are looking at Two way traffic 😀

There but for the grace of God do I or my kids ever need to do this

Oh. Why is this god persecuting THEM, then?

You tend to see a certain type of person trying to hitch a ride to the UK from Calais.

Desperate ones, basically.

nickc- let’s not muddy the waters with actual facts about what life these people end up leading. Rockape read in the Mail that there’s billboards across north Africa paid for by Labour and the Lib Dems advertising how amazing our welfare system is and, presumably, he has heard that a friend of a friend’s sister lives next door to someone who’s an asylum seeker with 300 children claiming £400 a day from the government.

This is NONSENSE. People do not come here because they have heard about our welfare system (one of the signs of a civilised country), they come here because their own country has become unlivable.

Here’s a few facts from The Migration Observatory, an independent research centre with no agenda-

– Asylum applications have reduced from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2013.
– In 2013 only 36% of these were accepted.
– The UK receives roughly half the number of asylum seekers per 1,000 residents than the rest of the EU.
– Asylum seekers can’t work until they have indefinite leave to remain after 5 years.
– No non-EU migrant can claim benefits for 5 years. The Observatory concludes “benefits alone are not realistic as the primary motivation for non-EU migrants to travel to the UK”
-As an aside, to counter the myth of EU Benefit Tourism, only 5% of EU migrants claim benefits.

So, I’m afraid the facts don’t stack up in favour of your economic migrant arguments.

So, I’m afraid the facts don’t stack up in favour of your economic migrant arguments.

Yeah right, try and slur me if you like, but answer the question as to why there are thousands camped in Calais, when they are already in Europe.

Bloody immigrants, coming over here and taking our hard earned taxes…

Why don’t they just appreciate the bombs we send their way?

I mean, don’t they realize how much military intervention costs anyway?

Depending on the size, scale and associated costs of the operation, the MoD has the ability to seek additional funding from the HM Treasury Reserve for the net additional costs to Defence.”

But on Tuesday, Chancellor George Osborne confirmed to MPs that the cost would be fully met by the Treasury’s reserve.

He said the MoD estimated the operation would cost tens rather than hundreds of millions.

answer the question as to why there are thousands camped in Calais, when they are already in Europe.

Only 1% of asylum seekers live in the UK. I answered your question a few posts ago- those that come here tend to do so because they have some links to the UK, like family. I would suggest you read up on the issue from reliable independent sources, not the press, and the facts, not prejudices based in myth, will win out.

Rockapes plan to use military force and aid until this blows over is misguided. It never will be over, climate change caused by western consumption will see to it that everywhere below sicily becomes econonically unviable.

We have three options.

A) Integrate billions of people slowly to more Northern or Southerly climates.

B) wait until the last minute and cause massive social upheaval.

C) Deny climate change, kill those who try to enter Europe and let hundreds of millions starve. whilst simultaneously excusing ourselves with Malthusian principles and Social Darwinism.

Given humanities track record we will choose the latter.

Tom…. you forgot option D…..

If we’re going to spend all that money on them, it seems daft not to use them! It’ll definitely stop people drowning. 😉

Rockape63 – Member

plus the ability to beg, borrow or steal

Say no more, that makes your position as clear as anything could

On the plus side, there’s a Royal baby soon, who’s up for chipping in to buy some pressies for the wee mite?

Aren’t we lucky to have such proud British traditions as the Saxe Coburg Gothas and their extended family, on whose behalf taxes are collected.

– Asylum applications have reduced from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2013.
– In 2013 only 36% of these were accepted.

And how many of the failed ones have been sent back?

While we’re at it, we could do a fund raiser to cheer Beatrice up after Daddy was exposed for hanging out with that unsavoury Jeffrey Epstein chap… what is it with Prince Andrew and dodgy types?

LIBYA

Tarek Kaituni: Convicted Libyan gun smuggler with whom Andrew enjoyed a four-day holiday in Tunisia in 2008 before visiting Colonel Gaddafi on a Foreign Office mission. The Duke stayed in a £480-a-night suite paid for by Kaituni, although he later reimbursed the cost.

And how many of the failed ones have been sent back?

Between 1997 and 2010 “The majority of failed asylum seekers were not removed – just 36 percent of those who were denied asylum were removed.”

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/11.26

Aren’t we lucky to have such proud British traditions as the Saxe Coburg Gothas

without wishing to de-rail the thread, and to be really fair, the majority of folk in the picture aren’t yer actual Saxe Coburg Gothas, and I’m not sure the Middletons are on the Civil List

ninfan- Around 40% of refusals are known to leave, the remainder it’s unknown. Many will leave, but for the sake of argument let’s keep it small at 50% in total leaving. That’s still only an additional 8,000 people or so. That’s hardly a lot. And they won’t be able to claim benefits or anything else from the states.

Irc- be aware that Migration Watch have a bias and their stats will be skewed.

ninfan – Member

And how many of the failed ones have been sent back?

About 40000 per year that we know of. But UK departure control is poor so there could be more that leave.

(which unless I miss my mark means that less asylum seekers arrive each year than leave, so overall numbers will be falling. Quite surprised at that)

question as to why there are thousands camped in Calais, when they are already in Europe

Oh yes good. Very strong.

without wishing to de-rail the thread, and to be really fair, the majority of folk in the picture aren’t yer actual Saxe Coburg Gothas, and I’m not sure the Middletons are on the Civil List

Perhaps not… but who do Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs work for?

(And considering the words above the picture, where do babies come from?)

Perhaps not… but who do Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs work for?

JHJ, there’s another thread for that. Please don’t derail this one.

As an example (I appreciate the problem is larger than just Libya)…If Prince Andrew has been involved in Libya and the migrants are displaced by conflict in Libya (which was escalated by the intervention of the British Armed Forces, the Commander in Chief of whom is the Queen), I’m really not derailling it~ simply looking at the bigger picture (and comparing the fortunes of immigrants such as the Saxe Coburg Gothas).

However, the real problems of the migrants who’s homelands have been disrupted by western imperialism remain… who should be overseeing and financing measures to bring them immediate safety and longer term stability?

whats the influence of the west on the countries the migrants are coming from.
the majority are not libyans.

Yeah right, try and slur me if you like, but answer the question as to why there are thousands camped in Calais, when they are already in Europe.

Familiar language and more familiar culture. English is a very common language around the world (most common second language?). French less so. German, Italian?

We have also traditionally welcomed immigrants and have a tradition of it from back in the day when we put our flags all over the globe. We already have ties with countries around the world because of this.

The entire question is impossibly difficult. See the thread about pride but most of us are hear through luck not effort. I’m not sure this gives us anymore rights to a comfortable life than someone born a few thousand miles away. Who is to say who is the most deserving.

However, equally, I can see that if we openened all borders of every country to anyone around the world we’d probbably decimate the population through war and famine.

The answer has to be to tackle the root cause of the problem which is the reason these people will make such a desparate journey and perhaps tackle the people who are profiting from their desparation.

whats the influence of the west on the countries the migrants are coming from.
the majority are not libyans.

Well – turning them into corrupt charity junkies from years of force-feeding them free cash, perhaps?

whats the influence of the west on the countries the migrants are coming from.
the majority are not libyans.

That’s a very tricky one to answer…

not all influence is overt.

There has been a long history of covert operations, it would be foolish to imagine similar things were not still occurring under the supervision of MI6 and the CIA

…maybe they are being funded by someone or something to pay the cost of the boat fares.

Just like the cyber men !

Or the Mujahadeen, who later went on to become the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

More recently, when Jihadi John went to fight in Syria, he had a common enemy with the Western Allies in Assad.

Yes, that’s why people are risking death. Substantial benefits payments? The average UK asylum seeker gets £35 per week of which only £10 comes in cash. So you think people are spending thousands of pounds and abandoning everything they have, for £1820 a year

Well if they come and work illegally they will make much more money than that. If they get accepted then can work legally for much more than that. Also the amounts you are quoting do not include the accommodation and food they are provided with plus the fact that if they get sick they will be treated. All of that is much more attractive than the economic hardship they have left behind.

I think that good ole Great Britain has royally **** up Africa in times gone past so we should tke responsibility and look after the folk who now need our help.

jambalaya – Member

All of that is much more attractive than the economic hardship they have left behind.

And yet earlier you were telling us about how much they’re spending to get here.

If they get accepted then can work legally for much more than that.

Asylum seekers can’t work.

asylum applicants are not permitted to take employment pending the
final determination of their claim

That is taken directly from the Home Office Asylum Policy Instruction.

If you bothered to read nickc’s link you’ll know that asylum seekers can claim around £5 a day. £1825 a year. The homes they are put up in are not funded by local councils. Of course they are treated for free if they are sick, this is the 1st world.

As above, go and read up on what you are talking about rather than basing what you say on poorly founded prejudice.

Is this an example of ‘Economic hardship’ in Syria?

How about this in Somalia?

I think that good ole Great Britain has royally **** up Africa in times gone past so we should tke responsibility and look after the folk who now need our help.

Oh, so it’s all our fault?

Have you considered addressing what was said rather than making up something they did not say ?

Yeah, not only that we are the main contributors to climate change which is going to destroy the apirations of a lot of developing nations.

It’s about time the west took responsibility for it’s history.

Rockapes plan to use military force and aid until this blows over is misguided. It never will be over, climate change caused by western consumption will see to it that everywhere below sicily becomes econonically unviable.

That was a tongue in cheek reference to an earlier post ‘until it blows over’ btw. As you say, it will never end, but by creating a ‘safe zone’ over there, protected by UN forces at least those in peril and in fear of their lives, have somewhere to go until such time they can go somewhere else, be it here or back to their country.

I think that good ole Great Britain has royally **** up Africa in times gone past so we should tke responsibility and look after the folk who now need our help

Yeah….Zimbabwe is a classic example! Oh wait…..!

Je Suis Refugee