apart from 5 or so years age obviously….

and the new bendy top tube.

Travel – Orange Sub 5 had 5" Travel – Orange 5 has 5.5 inches of travel no?

I think the geometry is quite different, but not sure where you'll get the sub 5 figures from. I had a sub 5, from memory compared to a modern 5 it felt long.

Sub 5 was 5.3 IIRC.

Wildly different bike from the latest 5, not that different from the first 5.

It depends which 5 and which Sub5 you compare. Despite looking the same, Orange continually tweak the geometry year on year.

So the 5 is this years best angles. Sooo much better than last years.

2003 Model

2010 Model

The sub 5 had a high pivot as it pre dates the pro pedal/platform shock's. It was originaly the sub 5 because the target was sub 5lb frame without shock, that didnt work out (needed a thicker DT) so it was chanegd to be becasue it had sub 5inch of travel. Hence it only having 4" forks up front (the patriot had 5")

The original '5' had similar geometry, but as others said up there, orange tweak the bikes ever so often rather than releasing a whole new bike each year. Geometry tweaks, different down tube, the bendy top tubes were a couple of years ago, then the down tube became even more rounded and now formed by reynolds in birmingham IIRC.

Ride it and see? I have a 2004 Five with 140mm forks and an inline post and it's not stopping me get down anything. As in, I don't think I've found its limit. Recent geometry being different and all, the basic design is still ace to ride 🙂

what thisisnotaspoon said. The Sub 5 has a stupidly high pivot. They moved it down in line with the middle ring when platform shocks came along. I had a Sub 5, bobbed like a good'un with horrific pedal kick back. Still hangs on the wall, bless.