Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 50 total)
  • what year do you think Shimano will release 11/40 SLX/XT cassettes?
  • qwerty
    Free Member

    2016???

    Suggsey
    Free Member

    When they think they can get away with us mugs paying mega bucks for them!

    qwerty
    Free Member

    Trickle down technology seems to be reasonably priced on SLX, no?

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    crankrider
    Free Member

    A 10 speed – 11-40 Shimano cassette at their usual pricing would dominate the market and there would be no need for all of the silly extender cogs we are all buying up….We dont need 11 speed yet!

    Shimano are going backwards at the moment and i love their stuff – run it on all of my bikes but SRAM are mopping the floor with them on the OEM market.

    qwerty
    Free Member

    A 10 speed – 11-40 Shimano cassette

    Take note Yozo! 😀

    PJM1974
    Free Member

    A 10 speed – 11-40 Shimano cassette at their usual pricing would dominate the market and there would be no need for all of the silly extender cogs we are all buying up….We dont need 11 speed yet!

    ^This. Shimano seem to be sitting on their hands of late, I can’t get a crankset with a BB30 that comes with chainrings I can actually use. I’m turning very anti-SRAM of late thanks to their sudden obsession with new standards.

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    I reckon next year’s SLX/XT will go 11 speed, with XT Di2.

    crankrider
    Free Member

    ^This. Shimano seem to be sitting on their hands of late, I can’t get a crankset with a BB30 that comes with chainrings I can actually use. I’m turning very anti-SRAM of late thanks to their sudden obsession with new standards.

    The problem is, the OEM market is SRAM biased now, I can only see that growing now due to the Fox/RF merger.

    I know Shimano is a large company but SRAM must be really hurting their share of the performance market.

    Shimano dont seem to have their eyes open either – we are all after an affordable 1×10 11-40 Cassette groupset, an easy task for shimano that they are ignoring.

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    I can only see that growing now due to the Fox/RF merger.

    How so? Fox and Shimano have well-established links, and the only overlap is cranks (and finishing kit if you count Pro). SRAM can sell you everything in one package – fork, gears, (squealy) brakes, transmission and wheels.

    bm0p700f
    Free Member

    2016 is likely. I quite like Shimano’s take on 1×11 and they offer a 38T ring up front (thats right isn;t it). I hope that is kept for XT 1×11.

    oldnick
    Full Member

    Sod that I need the full fat 11-42T 😳

    qwerty
    Free Member

    It would be a nice gesture of they did release a 10spd 11-40/42 cassette, but in the spirit of progress they’ll probably make it 11spd forcing everyone into buying a new shifter (hub?) too.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    They have stated that they are not happy with the gaps between cogs that you get in a 10sp 11-40t cassette, haven’t they?

    I reckon toward the end of the year for XT – guess based on nothing at all.

    njee20
    Free Member

    All bets are off really, as with 9 speed in 1999 and 10 speed in 2011 they did XTR/XT/(S)LX at the same time, so you could instantly mix and match. Obviously with 11 speed they’ve not.

    On the road groupsets they’ve done one groupset at a time – Dura Ace went 10 speed in 2003, Ultegra in 2004 and 105 in 2005. So if they follow that pattern then it’s potentially 2017 before they do SLX.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Shimano won’t do a 10 speed 11-40, as with XTR it will be an 11 speed only feature, so then your onto XT and SLX getting 11 speed facelifts…

    Possibly available to buy late summer 2016 I reckon, They should start the rumour mill up in spring/summer 2015 if they’re going to do it, could be 2017 though, they don’t want to rush and knacker sales of current stock, and it all depends on how far down the range SRAM trickle their own big cassettes in the next 12 months are there any X9/X7 10-42 or 11-40 variants on the cards?

    Shimano tend to react (slowly) to SRAM these days rather than taking the lead…

    AlexSimon
    Full Member

    My money is on XT 11sp available to buy in Nov this year.

    FOG
    Full Member

    I think the OE market domination by SRAM is about an ability to produce cheap crap quickly and to be flexible enough to do better bulk deals than the more conservative Shimano. I recently decided to build my new bike myself, partly because I had quite a few bits but also because so many of the complete bikes I was interested in came with full SRAM which I just don’t get on with and would replace anyway.

    daver27
    Free Member

    i reckon we’ll see it later this year, end of summer. as for pricing, 11speed xtr is basically the same as 10 speed xtr was, so i’d expect XT/SLX to come in at the current price points.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I think the OE market domination by SRAM is about an ability to produce cheap crap quickly and to be flexible enough to do better bulk deals than the more conservative Shimano.

    Very plausible.

    It’s a bit galling that Sram groupsets (not my choice) get bundled with Rock Shox suspension (which I do like).

    At least it creates a niche for the flexible smaller companies that do allow customers to spec their bikes.

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    When XT or SLX do come out in 11 speed I’d be willing to bet you can pick up a 1×11 set up (shifter, chain, cassette and mech) for less than Sram will charge you for even their cheapest 11 speed cassette, and you won’t need to change freehubs.

    I was reading the “new XTR” booklet that came with MBR this morning. I think Shimano are in one of two positions- they are either selling what riders need rather than what they want (which is what I suspect) or they are in another Dual Control situation where they are barking up the wrong tree.

    Their biggest point in the leaflet was that they haven’t gone 1x 11-42 because the gap between each gear would be too big for them to produce shifting they would be happy with and for riders to have the right gear all the time. I’d agree- I’d rather have less range, and combine it with a dual ring up front if I was unfit, and a smaller gap between gears so I could get my cadence right.

    njee20
    Free Member

    I must say I do sometimes find with XX1 that I’ll shift two gears, then regret it, and go back one! The gaps are big, but personally that doesn’t bother me on a mountain bike.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    crankrider – Member

    A 10 speed – 11-40 Shimano cassette at their usual pricing would dominate the market and there would be no need for all of the silly extender cogs we are all buying up….We dont need 11 speed yet!

    Nothing silly about an extender- it’d be better to be able to get a factory one but in the absence, it’s a great option.

    But “we don’t need 11 speed” is exactly why Shimano and SRAM will never release a 10-speed 11-42 cassette, they want to sell you 11 speed so they’ll create the reason to buy it by limiting 10-speed.

    XT and SLX will be along as soon as they think they’ve scalped all the people who’d choose XT if it existed but will buy XTR while it doesn’t

    edd
    Full Member

    My money is on XT 11sp available to buy in Nov this year.

    +1
    I think we’ll see 11 speed XT at this year’s Sea Otter as a 2016 group which will actually be available in October/ November 2015.

    amedias
    Free Member

    hub gear with a cassette, that’s what we need next!

    11-30(ish) 10s cassette for sensible ratio jumps and short cage mechs, with a 2 or 3sp hub* for under-drive and/or over-drive, normal mode being 1:1 direct drive, so any extra losses minimised in normal use.

    *hopefully lighter, simpler, less draggy, and more robust than a proper multi-gear hub, and without the excess flappy chain, long cages, clearance issues, and cassette cost of dinner plates at the back. Kind of like Hammershmidt concept but at the back and not as badly executed, would do until proper gearboxes are sorted.

    On topic though, I think 11sp will trickle into XT/SLX next year (2016), my bets are on XT and SLX at the same time, rather than road style one group at a time.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    SRAM do one already – called the Dual Drive.

    amedias
    Free Member

    yeah but DD3 stuff is urban/commuter/touring territory.

    I mean a proper MTB capable solution, with better sealing, decent weight, and compatible axle standards.

    Either that or just hurry up and sort gearboxes out properly 🙂

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    amedias – Member
    yeah but DD3 stuff is urban/commuter/touring territory.

    I mean a proper MTB capable solution, with better sealing, decent weight, and compatible axle standards.

    Isn’t Hammerschmidt already out there? And nobody liked it?

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    hub gear with a cassette, that’s what we need next!

    sram did a commuter one ages ago: dual drive

    amedias
    Free Member

    sram did a commuter one ages ago: dual drive

    See comments about it not transferring over to MTB yet, hub gears have been around for the best part of a century, and have been used on town and commuter bikes for ages, yet (other than Rohloff and arguably Alfine) we still haven’t seen much in MTB land.

    Isn’t Hammerschmidt already out there? And nobody liked it?

    HS was a good idea but awkward and clunky in execution

    – needed frame mounts (and had clearance issues)
    – was draggy
    – was heavy
    – ran essentially a granny ring as the main drive chainring, not great for longevity

    njee20
    Free Member

    Isn’t Hammerschmidt already out there? And nobody liked it?

    Because it’s heavy and draggy. Like every single hub gear ever!

    I really can’t see anyone will manage it any time soon, I reckon hub gears (and gearboxes) will remain the preserve of quirky beardy touring types, and hybrid/utility type bikes for some years to come.

    What, fundamentally, is wrong with a derailleur system? In your proposed idea amedias you don’t even get rid of the mech, so not sure what that would add! There are so many options for drivetrains (crikey XTR caters for virtually every whim by itself!) these days that I don’t understand what a two-speed hub gear and a close ratio cassette would actually offer.

    amedias
    Free Member

    my Hope (I may be dreaming here) is that a basic hub gear with only 2 or 3 speeds would not suffer massive drag issues as there would only need to be a single (or 2 for 3sp) planetary, with normal use being direct drive with little or no drag.

    You could thereby replicate the full range of a 2x or 3x drivetrain while maintaining compatibility with existing external derailleur drive systems and not have to deal with the (admittedly minor) issues that we are now experiencing with regards to cassette cost, cage length,and clearance, and still reap the benefits of not having to have a front mech, ie: chainline, clearance (frame and ground) etc.

    I really can’t see anyone will manage it any time soon, I reckon hub gears (and gearboxes) will remain the preserve of quirky beardy touring types, and hybrid/utility type bikes for some years to come.

    I think you’re bang on with this though, more’s the pity.

    But if internal gearboxes ever could get to the point where the drag and weight was comparable to normal derailleur it would be great wouldn’t it?

    better and extended range, no mechs to bash, no pivots to wear out, no mud issues, no chain retention issues, no clearance issues

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    amedias – Member
    my Hope (I may be dreaming here) is that a basic hub gear with only 2 or 3 speeds would not suffer massive drag issues as there would only need to be a single (or 2 for 3sp) planetary, with normal use being direct drive with little or no drag.

    You could thereby replicate the full range of a 2x or 3x drivetrain while maintaining compatibility with existing external derailleur drive systems and not have to deal with the (admittedly minor) issues that we are now experiencing with regards to cassette cost, cage length,and clearance, and still reap the benefits of not having to have a front mech, ie: chainline, clearance (frame and ground) etc.

    Question is whether all that is actually necessary when you have 1×11 systems that worke well enough for most people.

    amedias
    Free Member

    indeed, but let me have my dream! 😀

    1×10 is fine for me for racing < 2hrs, still prefer a double when out for a long one on Dartmoor or at a 24hr race.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    And we’ll be getting 1×12 before too long… 50T sprocket, anyone? 🙂

    I reckon that’ll kill of the hub gear idea for some time yet for most people (beardy touring types excepted 🙂 )

    njee20
    Free Member

    But if internal gearboxes ever could get to the point where the drag and weight was comparable to normal derailleur it would be great wouldn’t it?

    For me, no. I have no issues with a derailleur system whatsoever, and no desire to introduce complexity for the sake of it!

    chestrockwell
    Full Member

    we are all after an affordable 1×10 11-40 Cassette groupset, an easy task for shimano that they are ignoring.

    Are we?

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    my Hope (I may be dreaming here) is that a basic hub gear with only 2 or 3 speeds would not suffer massive drag issues as there would only need to be a single (or 2 for 3sp) planetary, with normal use being direct drive with little or no drag.[/Quote]

    Do you mean like this SA hub?

    scruff
    Free Member

    Most of the riders I go out with are running 1×10 with an expander. I notice the removed 16t big gap but thats it.

    Shimano doing all that work on a sideways front mech you need a special frame for, theyve lost the plot. I really think a 1×10 with bigger range would clean up the OEM market but Shimano seem to insist cadence and small gaps is more important. Beginners really struggle getting ther head around using front 7 rear mechs, add a dropper to that and theres just too much going on.

    I want 7spd Zee with clutch and big gaps between gears on my DH bike.

    njee20
    Free Member

    I really think a 1×10 with bigger range would clean up the OEM market but Shimano seem to insist cadence and small gaps is more important. Beginners really struggle getting ther head around using front 7 rear mechs, add a dropper to that and theres just too much going on.

    Buyers in general struggle with buying a bike with gears they then can’t get up hills in. Far more than those who struggle with front mechs. People who don’t know are more likely to object to 1×10, people who know what they want can convert to 1×10 for a profit, by the time you’ve sold the extra bits you don’t need.

    The 1x obsession is big in the US and the UK, but not so much in Europe and Asia, which are clearly vast markets.

    dragon
    Free Member

    I’m not sure Shimano want to go 1×11, surely they want a 2×11 electronic, which for most people would actually far better. I’m glad someone (Shimano) are sticking up for close ratio cassettes and double chainsets.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 50 total)

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