+1 Sancho – Was just going to write exactly the same thing !

People tend to look at it from their own personal perspective. However just ring your local PCT and ask them what services they have cut in the last year or so. The list may be bigger than you think 🙂

cheaper? how can that be when you need staff duplicated in the hospital for when the birth is happening, so in theory cheaper but in practice more expensive and if anything goes wrong then a lot riskier.

Wasn’t there a piece on the news the other day about all couples having the right to have cesarean section if they want it.

That’s gonna cost the NHS so much money – women who have this done need to stay in hospital longer, have more care, drugs, fees from the surgery etc etc.

If you want a cesarean, and there’s no medical reason for you needing one, then it should be charged to the patient.

Are you aware of the fact that the hospital labour ward is staffed 24/7?
They don’t call in extra staff specially cos someone’s having a home birth!
So cheaper in theory and in practice.
Have you ever met a midwife?

another area where the NHS should charge is when some drunk idiot is found passed out in the street, brought in to A&E, resuscitated, scanned, monitored all night, checked over by a whole team of people costing about £100,000 for the night, just to go home again and not give a sh1t.
they should be charged for the treatment.
not to mention the police, Ambulance service etc.

Listening to the whole piece on the radio I think they believe that the amount of caesareans will actually drop and the cost will reduce because although they are making them available to everyone they will be actively promoting and educating about natural birth more than at the moment.

Are you aware of the fact that the hospital labour ward is staffed 24/7?
They don’t call in extra staff specially cos someone’s having a home birth!
So cheaper in theory and in practice.
Have you ever met a midwife?

Yes, two of my good friends wifes are midwifes and they agree. My missus is also a radiographer and she agrees.

yes they do need duplicate staff, the GF is an anaestetic reg on the maternity ward and they have to double up the shift. So yes home births do cost more and need duplicate staff. and when a midwife goes off to someones house for the day/night, who is covering their duties, that midwife is now only able to deal with one person, so it requires extra staff in all levels.

costing about £100,000

Really?

“They don’t call in extra staff specially cos someone’s having a home birth!
So cheaper in theory and in practice.”

Depends on how busy the hospital is. Home births require 2 mid wife’s to be present. Some hospitals take the risk and do not get cover in for the 2 mid wifes who are out at your home. Busy hospitals will have to get cover in for the 2 mid wifes they are down.

Whilst Mrs FD was in hospital giving birth I spoke to quite a few mid wife’s and docs who said that they wished home births were not allowed. The fact perhaps that the midwife’s didn’t mention anything to you is because they give a very professional service.

Then what happens when it all goes wrong whilst having a home birth??

Who mentioned home birth? Not me. There’ nothing wrong with natural birth at hospital if possible.

£100,000 yes really, Ive been privy to info from consultants who have been left fuming when parents have collected tarquin on a Sunday morning who was found lying in the street unconscious after drinking a litre of vodka etc etc.
the hospital has to carry out so many checks that consultants from virtually every discipline are involved, and then they just shrug their shoulders and leave.

A home birth would be covered by the Community midwifery team and yes they would have to make sure there are enough staff around to cover all the patients. However in my experience what this meant was a hugely dedicated and experienced midwife making herself available. Even if someone had to cover shifts as she was up all night this is a tiny cost compared to just the bed on the labour suite.
It’s all about assessing risks. There are risks associated with home births and there are different risks associated with going into hospital.
The hospital staff only see the home births that have gone wrong, the vast majority stay at home and are fine.
The problem is too much costly medical intervention (c section on demand, too posh to push), not too little

I totally disagree with you DocRobster, but I wont labour the point. (you see what I did there)

Docro – I think we will all have to agree to disagree with you 🙄

£100,000 yes really, Ive been privy to info from consultants who have been left fuming when parents have collected tarquin on a Sunday morning who was found lying in the street unconscious after drinking a litre of vodka etc etc.
the hospital has to carry out so many checks that consultants from virtually every discipline are involved, and then they just shrug their shoulders and leave.

I am actually very surprised at that figure! I recently had to have surgery here (I’m in India working) and was in on a 24hr stay over. General anasthetic required so fairly serious op. Anyhow, the bill for that was the best part of £1400.

So the drunk is just over 70 times the cost of me.

Wow!

[edit] I know medical care is cheaper here but didn’t realise it would as much as that.

the high cost is due to the requirement of so many departments having to scan, consult etc.
Going in for a planned op is relatively cheap as they know whats needed, but if you had to have a brain scan, etc then the costs start multiplying massively.

I think they should scrap the NHS, as if you cannot afford private medical care then you should work harder and save, rather than being a burden on society.

So, pretty much in line with the the tory plan.

I think they should scrap the NHS, as if you cannot afford private medical care then you should work harder and save, rather than being a burden on society.
So, pretty much in line with the the tory plan.

Wow.

the high cost is due to the requirement of so many departments having to scan, consult etc.
Going in for a planned op is relatively cheap as they know whats needed, but if you had to have a brain scan, etc then the costs start multiplying massively.

Yep – when my missus does a weekend night shift, the majority of inpatients are some form of abusers. Drink or drugs. Because of a society of ‘suing’ the doctors have to cover themselves, and send patients for scans/x-rays who may not necessarily need them. Just so they can say they put the patient through the ‘process’. This costs the NHS thousands of pounds. While the patient sleeps it off, and is discharged in the morning.

There’s also a growing trend for people to call ambulances (if they live near a hospital), fain some kind of ailment, get a free ride to the hospital, and then get out and walk home.

There was a lad who nicked a car killed two people in a crash he caused and then needed every available emergency person in the LGI to save his life. At a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds and for what. Should have left him to die in the wreckage IMO

I had 1 ultrasound scan, 2 MRI scans, 2 consultants and a whole load of other staff, private room, a whole bunch of awesome drugs and I can’t remember what else.

I wonder how much it would have been in the UK?

Not sure I agree on the £100k to treat a drunk. I’m not medical but know many who are, and I thought they used skill and knowledge to realise that kid found in street smelling of alcohol = drunk therefore no reason to go to extremes of medical intervention. ie no external injuries, all stats fine, why would they do more investigation? Generally scans etc are only done if there is some indication that some thing isnt right, other than being drunk!

I think doctors that the NHS has trained at a huge cost should be required to give a percentage of any money they earn using these skills in private practise back to the NHS

Since I have the HEFA report sitting on my desk. 40.6% of IVF cycles were funded by NHS in 2010.

Overall numbers of cycles are increasing 7% pa and numbers funded by NHS decreasing. It will probably be a largely private service in the medium future.

Kid found unconscious drunk
need to check if fallen is there brain swelling, so need a brain scan, any injuries, has he been knocked down, etc etc because he’s unconscious they have to expend a huge amount of time and effort and practically everyone has to get involved.

“I think doctors that the NHS has trained at a huge cost should be required to give a percentage of any money they earn using these skills in private practise back to the NHS”

Scottidog – What utter rubbish. Are you telling me that no other people use skills aquired in their job to earn additional income outside of the main job, or move from one company to another after having received training or gained experience?

Also does sound plausable, but perhaps the government should first pay docs a deecent wage for what they do, pay them for the countless hours of overtime that they currently have to do for free, pay for the countless courses that docs have to self fund each year.

If a doc choose to do private practice and it prevents them doing their main job properly then yes it should be stopped.

Wasn’t there a piece on the news the other day about all couples having the right to have cesarean section if they want it.

Seems a bit excessive – they should just give the C-section to the pregnant woman only.

S’cuse me for sounding thick but why are so many women opting for Caesareans? Are they too posh to push or something?

On the subject of prescriptions, I’m on medication for life unfortunately and I get all my prescriptions free, not just the one pertaining to my condition. Seems such a waste.

DocRobster is right on the home births and the figure of £100 000 for a drunk teenager is laughable. Home births are cheaper if the service is set up for it. Medicalisation of childbirth in hospitals has cost huge sums

If you are going to debate this stuff at least get the basics right.

Drunks in A&E are a money wasting nuisance yes – but its nothing like that scale – thats the cost of 3 heart transplants for example or 30 hip replacements

“Home births are cheaper if the service is set up for it.”

I dont know any Trust that is set up for home births. I’m not saying none are, but the majority are not, and I know the Trusts around where I work use the same staff who would work in the hospital, as do the staff who work in the hospital where Mrs FD gave birth.

“S’cuse me for sounding thick but why are so many women opting for Caesareans? Are they too posh to push or something?”

Mrs FD wanted to go for Caesareans because her Mother had complications giving birth to her Sister, and nearly died giving birth to her. After speaking to 2 consultants they persuaded her to go the natural route. 37 hours of labour later, guess what, she ended up having to have an emergency section.

Some of the symptoms of an undiagnosed head injury – confusion, lack of coordination, lowered consciousness, can appear very similar to the symptoms of being off your box on alcohol. So if I pop out for a pint, then trip over and smack my head on the kerb, I want the doctor to not necessarily just say ‘drunk…ignore’.

Sadly, this means lots of investigation for drunks who have had a very minor head knock.

“Sadly, this means lots of investigation for drunks who have had a very minor head knock.”

Ok that qualifies doing lots of test on a drunk. Thats very different to a kid just getting drunk and falling asleep in the street! Surely a bump on the head makes it a medical issue regardless of cause? Or are we saying that cyclist (even wearing helmets) should not be treated if they go to A&E, was just as much their choice as the person who goes out and gets drunk…

A kid who falls asleep drunk in the street unfortunately doesn end up in hospital but they dont get £100k spent on them!

I think the point was, if an unconscious drunk comes in, they need to be treated with the assumption that they have sustained a bump on the head.

prezet – indeed they do. The will go on regular neuro obs,they will have a blood alcohol checked I would think, they will have a blood sugar reading taken ( to eliminate diabetic coma / hypoglycemia) as well. There will be a protocol in place for dealing with them. Its a routine thing in A&E unfortunataly

tehy will not have loads of expensive and time consuming treatment unless there are other indications.

TandemJeremy – Member
DocRobster is right

Can I have that on my tombstone please? 😉

home births attended by midwives no less safe than hospital births according to this large study