Very subjective who to save and who not to save arguments that can go round and round for ever .
One way I think the NHS could save vast amounts of money would be to charge people for the food they eat while in hospital . They would have to pay for food if they weren’t in hospital so why not charge them ? Even a nominal sum , say £5 per day would make a huge difference .

Only if the food is actually food and not moulded shizzle…

One of my work colleagues, 24yr old female, is hoping for gender reassignment surgery on the NHS. So far about 3 years since applying (if that’s the right word). Branding them is a bit barbaric Z11. By all means discuss.

OK TJ, if I see my son again in another life I’ll tell him
that by donating his heart it was a costly waste of time and I’ll take the receipt for the cost and wave it in front of the recipients face and let him/her know what you think. That is of course if the recipient is there.

While its tempting to reduce costs by banning access to big ticket items on moral grounds the major problems are:

1. UK voters appear to want Scandinavian healthcare and American taxation
2. the service is free at the point of delivery and having no cost to the consumer it has a low value.

The best way of increasing the perceived value of healthcare and at the same time reducing unnecessary consumption would be to introduce a small charge for anyone (and I mean anyone) accessing services. Let’s say either a small multiple of the cost of a packet of cigarettes or alternatively the cost a months Sky subscription. This would make everyone thing twice about whether they really need to seek medical advice. I would make only one exception: anyone requiring attention in the resus area of an accident and emergency unit.

You can get back to the jokes now 😳

Is there still the thing where HA’s are charged a fortune for titanium screws and rods and other such tat just because they are for the NHS, but exactly the same as non-NHS/health bound items?

How in the world have we got this far without anyone mentioning homeopathy?

Wait, I still want it to be available just for the placebo value, but I want them to be using tap water and not paying for the “proper” stuff. Maybe they already are, that would be good.

That and a flat fee (£100 or so) for alcohol / drug fuelled idiocy.

Interesting to see the comments about IVF on here. Infertility is a medical issue, and needing a child is probably one of our most basic human needs. Infertility can lead to mental anguish, stress, depression, break up of relationships. I’m sure anyone who’s suffered from it will most likely say it’s the hardest thing they’ve ever had to deal with. Yet it is a very costly treatment with a relatively low rate of success.

Tattoos should be banned, people should be forced to pay for them. I think it’s disgusting that the NHS will pay for these things!!!

Nah…slap a stupid tax on them. pays for any removals.

IVF – thousands of pounds a cycle – its a significant sum across the country for something that has no benefit to health.

I imagine you’d be perfectly happy to say that to someone who was conceived as a result of NHS funded IVF, TJ. 🙄

Stupid troll thread, all cos SBZ was pwned yesterday. Pathetic. Move on SBZ; move on. Have at least some dignity.

“No treatment for self inflicted damage” is one of those things that seems like a great idea when you’re dealing with lung disease in a smoker, gets a bit cagier when you get a mountain biker with a broken collarbone. Motorcyclist in an RTA? Even if it’s not his fault he probably wouldn’t be so messed up if he was in a car. Where does it start/end? I don’t want to be making that choice, not sure who I’d trust to do it for me either.

But then none of these are easy issues. Cosmetic surgery? I’m told can work out cheaper than treating depression. Gastric band cheaper than treating the long term conditions that they can prevent (though that goes back to the top of the post)

The one we’re going to have to address and which I don’t see much talk about, is life extension. We can keep people alive for much longer- but should we? The quality of life issues are important- especially for the elderly or very seriously handicapped/injured… But there’s also the cost issues- at what point do you stop paying to keep someone alive for another month?

Elfinsafety – Member

I imagine you’d be perfectly happy to say that to someone who was conceived as a result of NHS funded IVF, TJ

Pff, everyone knows the unborn souls are queued up in the bardo waiting for a suitable body, they’d just have to wait slightly longer.

Interesting to see the comments about IVF on here. Infertility is a medical issue, and needing a child is probably one of our most basic human needs. Infertility can lead to mental anguish, stress, depression, break up of relationships.

And there is thoousands of kids born every year to parnts who cant lok after them or want look after them, perhaps adoption would be easier and cheaper than medical stuff.

Here’s a serious question for you

isn’t it a moral dichotomy that we’re questioning the funding of IVF for one group of patients, but not questioning the NHS funding of abortions for another group?

The thing is some women who i know have had children to trap their husnband /boyfreind in a relationship, when before it was going off the boil.

While other couples have babies because theyre either catholic, and some old bloke in a dress says birth control is wrong,or because they failed to take the relevant precautions, in that case those babies so born should be handed over to the infertile couples.

isn’t it a moral dichotomy that we’re questioning the funding of IVF for one group of patients, but not questioning the NHS funding of abortions for another group?

No.

Next question pliz thx.

project – Member

in that case those babies so born should be handed over to the infertile couples.

Pff, who wants a used baby? Never know whether the previous owners serviced it properly.

And there is thoousands of kids born every year to parnts who cant lok after them or want look after them, perhaps adoption would be easier and cheaper than medical stuff.

You’d think so, wouldn’t you. Also for some people the basic need to have their own biological child is sufficient that they are driven to round after round of IVF (definitely not an easy option!)

Pff, who wants a used baby? Never know whether the previous owners serviced it properly. And it won’t have that new baby smell either.

Worth a LOL that.

You’d think so, wouldn’t you. Also for some people the basic need to have their own biological child is sufficient that they are driven to round after round of IVF (definitely not an easy option!)

take out a loan to pay for the treatment then, or get a previously owned one for free.

Toothache treatment.

Give it a day or two and the patient will surely out of sheer desperation just do it themselves.

i could save the NHS zillions and make it millions evry year at no cost to existing patient care with no restrictions etc etc..

in every drs / hospital /clinic recepetion add 1 little middle aged lady.. her job would be simple.. you turn up she says.. proof of eligibility for treatment or cradit card number please..

job done piece of cake simples.. cant believe no one has thought of it..

Would like to see some stats around unused perscription meds. Reckon most people who are meant to be on regular medication have unused cupboards full. Don’t think anyone should get free prescriptions, though a sliding scale may work best.

in every drs / hospital /clinic recepetion add 1 little middle aged lady.. her job would be simple.. you turn up she says.. proof of eligibility for treatment or cradit card number please..

Bring thatcher out of hibernation then, or perhps she already has that planned and to implemented by camerooooon plc.

Don’t think Cosmetic surgery should be funded nor reversal
loss of virginity should be funded fully by the NHS
Also any private surgery gone wrong the NHS should be able to claim monies back.

This may already been said But not going through 4 pages.

Rather than working out who deserves treatment and whose ailments are self inflicted, we could accept that everyone has health risks of one kind or another and all chip into a central fund to pay for treatment. We could call it National Insurance.

sweepy – Member

Rather than working out who deserves treatment and whose ailments are self inflicted, we could accept that everyone has health risks of one kind or another and all chip into a central fund to pay for treatment. We could call it National Insurance.

Great idea sweepy.Why not take it a stage further?
To help alleviate poverty for old people why not set up a scheme where each employee and their employer sign up to a contract of agreed benefits and payments then they both put away money all through their working lives.The government could lead the way in this innovative scheme. We could call it a public sector pension!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HMGIbOGu8q0[/video]

grantway – Member

loss of virginity should be funded fully by the NHS

I think I know what you mean. But still, LOLZ.

nor reversal
loss of virginity should be funded fully by the NHS

Good 😉

A large number of the things mentioned in this thread so far e.g IVF, many form of transplantation (given long term anti rejection therapy), gender surgery are not cost effective but have been establised in the NHS repetoire prior to NICE so are difficult to subsequently reverse.

Ivf provision is not difficult to reverse – the majority of PCTs don’t provide the service to NICE guidelines, others don’t offer it at all.

Interesting to see the comments about IVF on here. Infertility is a medical issue, and needing a child is probably one of our most basic human needs. Infertility can lead to mental anguish, stress, depression, break up of relationships. I’m sure anyone who’s suffered from it will most likely say it’s the hardest thing they’ve ever had to deal with. Yet it is a very costly treatment with a relatively low rate of success.

30% + and rising so quickly that they are considering only allowing single egg transfers now.

take out a loan to pay for the treatment then, or get a previously owned one for free.

Do you know how difficult it actually is to adopt? Clearly not.

A mate once suggested all mountaineering related injuries should be automatically be referrerd for psyciatriatric treatment. … (Id include myself in the group mountaineer)…. 🙂

Do you know how difficult it actually is to adopt? Clearly not.

Or the grilling you get off Social services when you try to adopt and you haven’t been through IVF…

I feel rather embarassed to have belittled comments by mastiles et al. IVF is in certain circumstances more in keeping with funded treatment than many i am involved in.

docrobster – Member

The herceptin question is a tricky one.
If you tell people there is a drug that works better and keeps people alive for longer most people will say yes please.
However if it costs several times more than the alternative that is almost as good you have a conundrum.
Do you keep 100% of your patients alive for 6 months or 25% of your patients alive for 12 months?
You decide. Which is better?.

This is the key point. Herceptin is (depending on sources) £20 000 – £100 000 pa per patient and gives a couple of months extra time to die in on average compared to the much cheaper treatments

On the heart transplants – I deliberately picked an emotive one. 131 people transplanted last year – survival rates are better than they were which to some extent demolished my argument but for the cost of those 131 heart transplants we could have had a couple of thousand of hip replacements. I am a registered donor tho for everything

IVF – another emotive one and people can live perfectly healthy lives without it.

the issue is cash is limited – and always will be as demand is more or less infinite. It needs hard decision taken in a non emotive manner to decide on what is done and what is not.

Personally I would strip the NHS of these expensive treatments of little utility and instead make sure the basics are done to the very highest standards. I think that would do “more good” So the little old lady gets home care with time for a chat, those in hospital get decent food. Gps run 15 min appointments not 7 and so on.

I’d like the NHS to ban anything I currently think that I or a member of my family won’t need in the future.

And reduce waiting times for anything I’ve needed or think I might need in the future.

Friend of mine is going into hospital in 9 months for an operation to alter her jaw-line using titanium inserts. On the NHS, surprisingly.

Or the grilling you get off Social services when you try to adopt and you haven’t been through IVF…

Or the grilling you get off Social services when you try to adopt and you have been through IVF!

tazzymtb – you’re posting comedy but this place is part of the NHS: http://www.rlhh.eu/

Nuke it from space and sell the site to Bovis LendLease (or someone), and that’s a few million quid right there.

Even a nominal sum , say £5 per day would make a huge difference .

If it were just a nominal sum then it wouldn’t make a huge difference. Besides, the billing and collections would probably be more hassle than it’s worth, especially if you gave exemptions for people on benefits and oldies etc. It’s also pointless unless you’re actually going to refuse to feed people who don’t pay.

Usual scumbaggery from Z11 displaying usual ignorance is unsurprising.

c-section I can live with, but home births are just stupid and a huge waste of money, add to that water births and any other shite that the modern mother wants.
The NHS should just state if youre pregnant you will have the birth how we(NHS) deem safest and it will be done in a hospital.
If the mother wants an alternative, fine go pay for it.

Every time theres a home birth, you need a whole duplicate team also on stand by in the hospital waiting for the possible complication which means the mother has to be brought in to hospital, and saved.
And when a birth goes wrong and anything ruptures the mum will lose pints of blood in minutes and no amount of hot towels and birthing baths will save her.

Home births aren’t stupid or a waste of money. They are cheaper than hospital births and if carefully selected a whole lot safer too.
(2nd child born at home in water. Easy peasy. First born in hospital ventouse delivery. Difficult and expensive.)