Evening all

I currently own an upgraded cannondale sl5, i’m about at the limit of upgrades that I want to do on this bike and being a big guy (6ft 5″ and 19st!) I feel I could probably benefit from a full sus.

Partly because I feel sorry for the bike but mostly because I want one 🙂

My budget is £1500 – £1900 ideally the lower end.

I like to earn the descents so don’t want anything that can’t climb well. My usual ride is about 15 miles off road and 900ft of climbing, I also on occasion head over to Llandegla for the red and black route.

So far I’ve only really got two bikes in mind, what do you think?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-mega-am-275-comp-bike-2014/rp-prod107266

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/trance.27.5.2/19232/77347/

Any other ideas? Would probably get a large rather than an XL as I never feel comfortable on massive bikes.

Why buy new?

I think my money would be with the Canyon Spectral if I was just riding natural stuff and trail centres.

if I was just riding natural stuff and trail centres.

What else is there?

Lets assume new for now, not sure if i’m going to get a C2W scheme voucher or not yet, either way the budget stands 🙂

The spectral looks good, i’ve heard they’re not great for tall riders though? also, do they climb well?

Agreed – unless you’re desperate for the latest must-have 27.5 bike (in which case go for a Canyon Nerve or Spectral at the appropriate price point – if they do one big enough – or buy my size L 2014 Boardman FSR Pro frame for £250!), then go for used 2012/2013 bikes. There are some amazing 26″ Stumpy Evo, Trek Remedy carbon, or high end Zesties, Spicies, and Mondraker Foxy RR/XR deals to be had – check on here, Pinkbike and Fleabay.

At 19st your first concern should be leverage ratio.

Make sure it is pretty damn progressive. I think 2:1 is what a friend of mine that is pretty heavy used to look for.

I am sure someone with far greater knowledge of these things will be along to advise shortly.

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s154p5211/CANNONDALE-TRIGGER-29ER-1-2013

Mbnut no idea what you’re talking about, I push the pedals hard and it goes forward 😀

dekadanse – I would be tempted but I guess it’s a 27.5? my SL5 is a 26″ so all the other bits would mount up to probably a complete bike!

I’d go for the Giant from Pauls cycles for £1500, good spec for the pennies.

Not sure if they will have a size to suit 6ft 5 though.

What else is there?

I meant if I were riding the usual stuff without DH days thrown in

The Whyte T-129 would be an obvious choice if you could push the budget up slightly. At 6ft5 though, expect you’d need the XL in anything! Mind you, one of my friends is taller than you and prefers riding bikes 2 sizes 2 small for him!

A cheaper alternative to the T-129, perhaps a bit more XC biased, would be the Ghost AMR 29** series. I’ve got a 2013 AMR 2955 that I’ve upgraded a bit, it’s a fantastic general purpose trail bike. It climbs pretty well, is probably a bit overbuilt for its travel (but that means it’s pretty stiff to be fair) and comes well specced for the money. Deals out there to be had right now too!

I am talking about not wasting your money.

At 19st your will struggle to get a rear end that works.

It would be time well spent researching what designs would suit you or you’ll end up with a bike with a rear end that blows through its travel or one that you have pumped up so hard that it’ll be an inefficient hardtail.

It’s your dough…

Cheers Mbnut, I’ll do some more research 🙂

Some great bikes have been suggested though so far, thanks.

Mbnut – Member
I am talking about not wasting your money.

At 19st your will struggle to get a rear end that works.

It would be time well spent researching what designs would suit you or you’ll end up with a bike with a rear end that blows through its travel or one that you have pumped up so hard that it’ll be an inefficient hardtail.

It’s your dough…

What would I be looking for?
I had a pedal on a new White 150 recently. At 15st we had to put 250psi in the shock to achieve 30% sag and it still felt “soft”.
My old Kona works fine down to 180psi….

Check price of 2015 Giant before buying old models 💡

Camber Evo (large) from bikescene in the middle of your budget?

I bought a Giant Anthem X 1 29er a few months ago – reduced from £2k to £1.5k. Don’t know much about bikes but seems to do everything I need and has made going uphill a lot more pleasurable than my 15 year old predecessor. I’m 6ft 1 and the large frame fits me fine

Any other ideas? Would probably get a large rather than an XL as I never feel comfortable on massive bikes.

Probably best to get a proper fitting and/or some training first.

You ought to ride a bike that fits, and if the (for example) seat tube is too short you’ll either have a seriously long/weak seat post and/or a poor riding/pedalling position.

And tbh most large’s only just have enough top/seat tube for me at 6’2″.

I will go and have a reread, give me a day or two.

The Whyte G150 is not really designed as a go getter pedalling machine but rather as a bike that will climb rough terrain well. Allowing the rear suspension to stay active when riding square edge type rocks and roots when seated, traction galore.

For me at 15.5st kitted I like bikes a bit like the G150 but I always have to do plenty of work to get the shock set up just right.

A good thing to look out for is second hand Nicolai frames. They are strong, stiff and have variable travel which will allow you to control the rear end as adjusting the travel down leaves the geo the same but gives a tauter rear end.There are a couple on PB but only a M and a L.

Off for a ride now… lovely day and will read up again later.

I would have bought that Nukeproof already if I were you.
Pikes and Monarch plus!
Just add a dropper.

(actually at 6’5″ it’s hard to see it fitting)

The Bird Aeris that I’ve ordered is also an XL option and start at £1550, but there’s a 3 month wait for those 🙁

Still massively confused by this leverage ratio stuff, I’ve had a look and I understand it reasonably but no idea how to look at a bike and decide what leverage ratio it has!

I’m in talks with dekadanse about his boardman frame at the minute, just slightly concerned it may be to XC orientated for my build

Also, I know I should get a bike that ‘fits’ but I’ve rode bikes that are meant to be my size and I’ve never felt comfortable, always felt better on a bike one size down.

Perhaps it was just the bike I rode or I didn’t give it enough time maybe.

I have a Kona Process on it’s way to me from CRC for a bit over 1200 quid with EXTEN off. I imagine I’ll REALLY be earning the descents!

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/ this site may be of some use when considering leverage ratio

Get the nukeproof,my mate is 6’3″ and 16 stone rides a 20″ it’s not a massive frame,but is sturdy.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/ this site may be of some use when considering leverage ratio

– Cheers frosty will take a look at this later

Get the nukeproof,my mate is 6’3″ and 16 stone rides a 20″ it’s not a massive frame,but is sturdy.

The sizing is perfect, i’m bothered about it being too descent orientated though and shit at climbing.

My last full sus was an Orange 222 about 10 years ago, it was shit at climbing, not really sure what to expect these days on modern full suspensions. I’ve heard the giant maestro system is awesome though.

Mbnut talks sense about linkage ratios. I too had a go on a Whyte G-150 yesterday, it’s a fantastic bike but I had to put almost 200psi in the shock and I’m only 12 stone!

Basically, the lower the leverage ratio, the lower the air pressure you need in a shock. Shocks are available in different lengths, and designers design the frames around them. Typical shock stroke lengths are 1.5″, 1.75″, 2″, 2.25″.

If we take a bike with 115mm of travel (4.5″) for ease of maths, and change the shock and the leverage ratio to acheive that travel you get the following…

A bike with a 1.5″ stroke shock has a 3:1 leverage ratio (3×1.5″ = 4.5″)
A bike with a 1.75″ stroke shock has a 2.57:1 leverage ratio
A bike with a 2″ stroke shock has a 2.25:1 leverage ratio
A bike with a 2.25″ stroke shock has a 2:1 leverage ratio

If that makes sense?

Usually, frame designers design frames with leverage ratios somewhere between 2 and 3:1. Outliers do exist, but they’re not the norm. If you’re Mr. average, leverage ratio isn’t likely to be a huge consideration as shocks usually work well within a 100-200psi pressure bracket (roughly as a rule, it may be different depending on the shock). If you weigh 8st and are looking at a bike with a 2:1 leverage ratio, you may find that you have to run very low pressures in the shock to get it to move much, and that the shock will be very over damped as a result. At the other end of the scale, if you’re 18st and looking at bikes with a 3:1 ratio, you could risk blowing the seals regularly as you’re likely to need to exceed the recommended max pressure in the shock, and it will almost certainly be underdped for you!

Incidentally, as an aside, the Ghost AMR I ride and have recommended already has a 2:1 ratio and a nicely stiff back end. In other words, it’ll be a good bet for someone of your weight.

Don’t have time to read through but assume someone has suggested a Vitus Escarpe? And would second it…

Getting bikes to fit someone your height (and mine – i’m only 15st though) is easy enough. Like you i prefer a smaller bike and ride a 20″ hardtail and a 19.5″ fs.

At 19st your will struggle to get a rear end that works.

This is the tricky bit. Maybe fire off an email to some suspension tuning guys to see what they recommend. Some air shocks might be better suited for tuning than others, or they may suggest a coil shock.

I was going to suggest the TR Mega as it’ll climb a little better and is a tad cheaper (thinking the money saved could go towards retuning the shock) but looking at the forks i decided against it.

I’m pretty sure there are a couple of large/x large enduro 29ers for sale on pinkbike for under your budget.

http://www.cube.eu/uk/bikes/fullsuspension/stereo/cube-stereo-140-hpa-275-black-anodized-2015/

mboy – really great post, thank you very much, combining your info with frostys post earlier I can pretty much rule out the trance & nukeproof

(3.05-2.6) leverage ratio according to http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/giant-trance-650b-2014.html assuming that means 3.05 / 1 to 2.6 / 1

also, same for the nukeproof at around 2.6/1 http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/nuke-proof-mega-am-275-2014.html

The ghost like you say is looking like a good bet at 2:1 http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/ghost-amr-asx-2014.html

Can’t find any info on the leverage ratio of the boardman pro though, will try to see what I can find out

Thanks everyone, very impressed at how helpful everyone has been

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ghost-amr-2975-suspension-bike-2014/rp-prod111427#

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ghost-amr-6575-suspension-bike-2014/rp-prod111429

Only real difference between these two appears to be the wheel size, dropper & travel.

Presumably they would be similar leverage ratios? I can only find data for the 650b version.

I also can’t find any other bikes with a near 2:1 leverage ratio!

Choice of shock is way more important than leverage ratio in most cases. Both those ghosts have hv Shocks in the picture, which means they probably would need a new shock either way. Look for something low to medium that uses an sv can and you’ll be fine I would expect.

Choice of shock is way more important than leverage ratio in most cases. Both those ghosts have hv Shocks in the picture, which means they probably would need a new shock either way. Look for something low to medium that uses an sv can and you’ll be fine I would expect.

No idea what hv means or sv? and what does low to medium in respect to that mean?

Also, the bike has a seemingly good spec, why put a shock on it that needs replacing?

High Volume and Standard Volume. High Volume shocks have more air in them to compensate for certain riding characteristics, but they tend to be very linear – heavy guys need lots of air in them. Luckily you can just change the shock to a standard can, but thats a bit of an expensive upgrade.Rule of thumb is avoid HV shocks if over about 13st.

Also, don’t get hung up on certain ‘stats’. Yes the ghost has a low leverage ratio, but thats not the whole story, its also linear, very linear. That means its going to wallow about a lot as there’s no real resistance in the frame design to moving through the travel, which means you are totally reliant on the shock. So what you gained in low ratio you just gave back in a very flat shock curve.

High Volume and Standard Volume. High Volume shocks have more air in them to compensate for certain riding characteristics, but they tend to be very linear – heavy guys need lots of air in them. Luckily you can just change the shock to a standard can, but thats a bit of an expensive upgrade.Rule of thumb is avoid HV shocks if over about 13st.

Thanks for the info, do you mean though I should avoid lots of air? as surely a high volume shock would be what I need if I need lots of air in it?

I’ve had a good idea for my next thread though – “What hardtail bike should I get?” 😉

“What hardtail bike should I get?”

LOL

Just to clear it up. 29er Versions of the Ghost AMR come with a standard volume can it seems, where the 650b and/or the 26″ versions come with a HV can.

Also, don’t get hung up on certain ‘stats’. Yes the ghost has a low leverage ratio, but thats not the whole story, its also linear, very linear. That means its going to wallow about a lot as there’s no real resistance in the frame design to moving through the travel, which means you are totally reliant on the shock. So what you gained in low ratio you just gave back in a very flat shock curve.

Indeed, there’s also plenty of designs out there with a falling rate linkage too, which means they really wallow as they go through their travel!