i heard on the news here in Germany that the pilot attempted to land three or four times before crashing.
reports say that the plane was mechanically sound.

The Polish president’s plane, it is noted darkly, was Russian-made, and recently serviced in Russia. The Russian Government heartily disliked President Kaczynski, who had criticised Russia’s “new imperialism”.

does anyone else think there has been a little bit of foul-play on russia's part?

No. I understand the pilot's lack of russian didn't help him when speaking to the control tower.

Where's that tin foil hat store again?

Those sneaky commies 😆

As conspiracy theories go, it's not wildly implausible. All that's needed is some actual evidence that it was anything other than an accident.

I've heard none so far. That the aircraft was made in Russia is hardly a killer fact.

A Polish MP said he came by train and arrived shortly afterwards at the scene and said there was no fog- it was a blue sky.

Whoever is responsible for the Polish President's death should be Putin jail.

Are you here all week?

Except friday.

No. I understand the pilot's lack of russian didn't help him when speaking to the control tower.

I thought that 'english was the language of the air'- ie all control towers spoke English, exactly for this reason…

Hmm, on one hand, not much to gain from killing Pres of Poland (no ongoing disputes and NATO missile shield isn't going to disappear if you kill the one guy – in fact, you might guarantee his brother's election next time around).

On the other hand – heavy fog, no instrument guiding system at a military airport, numerous attempts to land, plane full of senior people used to getting their way and "don't you know who I am-itis", and two pilots being prodded to land so they don't miss the big ceremony the next day.

I'm not saying Putin wouldn't do it cos he's a good guy, just that there's no real incentive. Besides, there's a putsch to be managing in Kyrgyzstan right now.

But having said that, I'm surprised they had the plane serviced in Russia. How would you know it wasn't filled with listening devices?

it was a blue sky

Does this thread contain no sources because alpin and hora are basically lazy, or because there are no decent sources? "Both" is a permissible answer. 😉

Good point. They shouldn't have been russian to land in the first place…

you know… I kind of thought it all a bit odd when it happened…

along with the bombings in Moscow earlier in the month, for some reason my mind kind of linked the two events, and I'm no conspiracy nut…

'False flag' operations and all that?

What's a 'false flag' operation?

All eggs in one basket … perfect!

Surely such fundamental security issue cannot be overlooked.

Elementary!

🙄

A Polish MP said he came by train and arrived shortly afterwards at the scene and said there was no fog- it was a blue sky.

The crash scene photos here show grey foggy conditions in the immediate aftermath, and then some brighter shots of taped-off wreckage and the press pack presumably later in the day.

Entirely plausible there was low-lying morning fog which dispersed afterwards.

Is it international pun day today or what?

Entirely plausible there was low-lying morning fog which dispersed afterwards.

That doesn't fit into my conspiracy-mindset dude 😐

Sorry hora… errrr… so the pilot was actually a nine foot shape-shifting lizard who escaped into the seventh dimension just before impact. And the whole thing was planned by Tom Hanks and the Vatican.

Better? 😉

has anybody checked the whereabouts of mr hanks?

…And the whole thing was planned by Tom Hanks and the Vatican.

I should have known the pope would be involved, the shady rascal!

Roman Catholic latest:

Its the gays who are Paedophiles.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

hmmm, Pres. Kaczynski has form on this (making aeroplanes land) he'd tried to go to Georgia when it all kicked off down there a few years ago, luckily the pilot that time decided that he was in charge and refused to land in a war zone, so President Kaczynski had to drive in from another airfield.

Bit of background to this: The Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk and President Kaczynski don't exactly see eye to eye over foreign policy towards Russia, Kaczynski was going to this ceremony is a bit of a state of high dungeon, he may have tried on the "land now" trick with a couple of more acquiescent pilots…ooops…

Yeah, I'm with the "land this plane here now, do you know who I am? I don't want to land 50 miles away with no security arrangements".

Sorry hora… errrr… so the pilot was actually a nine foot shape-shifting lizard who escaped into the seventh dimension just before impact.

Isn't our Queen supposed to be one of those shape-shifting Venusian lizards, according to some of the more… extreme conspiracy nuts? Anyone checked to see if she's still at home?
Seriously, it does seem as though the sadly late prez used the “I'm the President, I've got an important appointment I can't miss, so land this plane NOW” ploy, with the clearly tragic results. Russian airlines have truly dodgy records, and those Tupolev's are really iffy. Chuck in fog and no landing aids, and you can hear Darwin chuckling quietly in the background.
An expression springs to mind as well, something about eggs, and baskets…

CountZero – Member
…it does seem as though the sadly late prez used the “I'm the President, I've got an important appointment I can't miss, so land this plane NOW”

It certainly got "landed"

President Kaczynski has been strongly disliked by the Russian government as, according to Russia Today, he enjoyed upsetting Putin and co.
He insisted on Russia acknowledging Katyn, the place of slaughter of Polish officers by them at the beginning of WW2.
He was a strong NATO player, doing all that was possibl to prevent the USSR2, sorry – Russia, from ruling half of Europe again.
He acknowledged the Georgian government despite Russia saying it didn't exist.
The list is very long, He was guilty of serious mischief., according to RT.
The pilot circled the airport as, according to Gazeta Wyborcza (2nd largest daily broadsheet in Europe), the tower was saying "We think you should fly to Minsk." rather than giving orders which seems to be the regular practice.
I don't know if Russians had anything to do with the crash but weakening opposition and getting rid of another country's establishment doesn't seem inconvenient.
BTW All Polish military/special pilots speak fluent Russian, it's been claimed by the other presidential pilot.
FWIW The coverage on BBC/Sky/EuroNews is much less detailed than in Polish media. The Brits don't want to upset anybody unlike the Irish radio RTE2 guy yesterday.

I work with a few Polish guys who think the conspiracy nuts are mental. That's good enough for me.

As Hairychested wrote. Much more coverage in polish media than here. I imagine that a plane made in Russia in 1990 could be only serviced in Russia in 2010, as I don't think anyone else would have any spare parts. Second thing is that even Aeroflot stopped flying them but since I remember there was always the problem of buying new planes as every single government elected didn't want to do it as it would seem as waste of money to the taxpayers and wouldn't re-elect them.

Pilots were speaking fluent Russian and English. They were military pilots but the plane was a civil flight so although the airport was military, the airport crew can only advise the pilots, they can order them to fly somewhere else if it was a military flight.

Other thing is why did they put all the top generals, ministers and MP's, along with the president in one plane. I understand it's prestigious to fly with the president rather to go on the train or by car and people were using there influences to get on the passenger list.

There was only one landing approach and that is when they crashed, the plane circled around the airport 4 times, but that wasn't trying to land.

I know that it's easy to find some conspiracy theory, and Russians are aware of it as well and they allowed Polish investigators to work along with their on the same rights etc what previously would probably be hard to imagine. They are doing everything and co-operating as they can. I'll just wait for the official report.

Smaller plane carrying all reporters landed no problem 1.5h before, but a transporter plane was sent to a second airport before the Tupolew due to bad weather condition. President have a previous history of putting pressure on the pilot to land in dangerous conditions however this time it seems that the pilot made the decision BUT how can You not feel the pressure when You know that if You won't land there and then the President and all top generals will be late and You will be to blame. So tragedy happened. Great tragedy, someone can not like this or that party, but they were all people that died. I also read that the passengers were not aware they will crash and everything happened within around 3 seconds. Everyone died instantly so didn't feel much pain.

Wait for the detailed report before putting any conspiracy theory. Probably someone here will be saying there is a UFO in one of the satellite pictures. It's weather that changed, it's not that Russians produced fog specially for their landing. In Scotland You can get rain, sun, than rain again in less than 30 minutes.