My mum is 85 and has decided, for some reason, that she needs a new gas boiler as her old {Ideal mexico} is about 30 years old and BG have told her it’s difficult to get parts for.
I don’t really have a big issue with this (even though the old one still works OK) but I do have an issue with BG wanting to change the boiler installation from the current position (floor mounted in its own room just off the kitchen with air supply from a vent into the cellar below) to a wall mounted boiler upstairs right outside a bedroom door. Plus they want £5300 for the installation 😯
They are proposing to install one of their own branded boilers but I’m presuming they are made by someone else – anybody know who actually makes them and are they any good?

Sounds expensive but how big is the house, whats involved in the work and what sort of boiler is it?

For instance a straight swap of a combi-condensing boiler into existing pipe work for a 3 bed flat would be from about £1500 upwards for a good brand boiler.

If they want to power-flush the system then that would add a few hundred pounds and if the house is bigger you’d want an uprated boiler. They may need to change some of the pipework too.

There will be restrictions on where they can put the flue but their new proposed location seems a bit odd.

If she hasn’t signed anything I’d ask them for a breakdown of their quote and get some from other local plumbers (ideally with good reputation).

This thread suggests that they are Glow-Worm

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=969343

and BG have told her it’s difficult to get parts for.

No surprise there. BG telling her to replace the boiler, and they can happily oblige. Don’t assume that parts aren’t available and she needs a new boiler just because BG said so. I’d get some local guy in to look it over.

This seems to be quite a common ruse by BG, especiually when dealing with older folk.

Doesn’t surprise me. A few years ago British Gas were running a promotion (40% off) and told me a brilliant price for a straight boiler swap £2,700.

I actually felt offended. As though BG were taking the piss. If someone told me over 5k I’d class it as taking advantage. A straight forward boiler swap shouldn’t be over 2k unless you are going for a top of the range/fancy boiler IMO. You can re-use much of the existing pipework.

I bet the flush of the pipes came in at 1k?

Smallish 2 bedroom house. New location = alteration of the supply/feed/gas pipework so more cost. We do have a detailed quote and the boiler is just £750 of the price!
I think they are just taking the p**s out of someone who doesn’t know better.
plus they are scaring her by saying that the ventilation isn’t up to current building regs (although I think it is) – but they do not apply to existing installations, only new ones.
Luckily there’s a chap I shoot with who has a heating business and used to deal with my late dad [architect] a lot – he’s coming over tomorrow.
personally I think she should just keep the existing boiler and buy a few thermocouples as these have gone a couple of times. At worst she can have a new boiler but in the same location, but this might cause a problem as there is no outide wall where it is now.

I can still get parts for my 25-30 year old Potterton Nettaheat boiler and being so old and simple, servicing it is very simple.

At worst she can have a new boiler but in the same location

Not quite that simple as the latest regs on pressure drop to the boiler of 1mb normally mean they have to replace the gas pipe to the boiler with 22mm and minimal bends – so that’s a big piece of work. You often see them running it externally to save on labour costs of taking up floorboards.

One more reason to keep the old one going.

sharkbait – I don’t think it’s unusual anyone recommending to replace a 30 year old boiler. But £5,300 seems more than a little OTT. Is your Mum on any pension credits? If so she may qualify for a free boiler through the catch-illy titled Energy Company Obligation Home Heating Cost Reduction Obligation.

Check this out free boiler package

Had the same issue with BG, its their stock answer for old boilers. I was quoted £2700 also – £5k is taking the pish.

At the op – in the end we paid £1350 for a corgi registered chap with assistant to supply & fit a valiant boiler in 2 hours of a saturday morning – shop around.

But £5,300 seems more than a little OTT

Seems?

I’ve just paid £3400 for new combi and 6 new rads.

This replaced an old gas fire & back boiler so combi was in a new location, new pipe work (including 22mm gas pipe to mains), new flue, fit and supply of rads with new TRV’s (including one rad moved location).

I’d say £5300 is taking the piss.

I got a decent boiler myself from a local Plumbing merchants and paid a Gas registered bloke to fit. Probably £1300 all in.

I’d say £5300 is taking the piss.

BG service guys are on commission, hence they always try and push a new boiler and always offer stupidly high prices…..

Seems BG has form in the parts not available stories.

I had exactly the same – spoke to a local plumber & also checked myself online

parts are freely available for my boiler

Sounds expensive but how big is the house, whats involved in the work and what sort of boiler is it?

Sounds expensive because it is!

We had 3 quotes from local tradesmen to fit an entire CH system in our last place. All were within £500 of each other. BG were nearly double the most expensive
The 3 tradesmen all came round in work clothes, measured each room, went away and sent a written quote. I’d have used any of them
BG sent a young bloke in a shiny suit who literally had a 2 min look round and said “£6000, how does that sound?”
So I showed him a written quite and he disappeared sheepishly.

Not quite that simple as the latest regs on pressure drop to the boiler of 1mb normally mean they have to replace the gas pipe to the boiler with 22mm and minimal bends – so that’s a big piece of work. You often see them running it externally to save on labour costs of taking up floorboards.

I’ll see if they’ve quoted for this, but as the boiler currently sits above the cellar through which the gas supply flows I cant see this being a big deal

Granted, the part they need may not be available here:

http://www.idealboilerparts.co.uk/IdealParts.aspx?searchtype=1&PageNum=1&PageSize=20&keywords=mexico

but it doesn’t exactly seem like quite the epic struggle BG are making out. Unfortunately, these guys are on commission, and the price quoted suggests they view your relative as easy pickings.

In most cases, with old boilers, you just buy a generic part. Eg a few years back the pressure sensor died on mine and I just bought a generic unit for about £9 and fitted it myself. It wasn’t an exact fit, so is held in place with a cable tie, but 100% safe and works fine. It’s only the control unit which you need to have the correct model for and they’re normally available OEM.

Hmmmm. Thanks guys, confirms my suspicions that BG are trying to grab my inheritance mums money.
I can see an order cancellation rapidly approaching.

BG sent a young bloke in a shiny suit who literally had a 2 min look round and said “£6000, how does that sound?”
So I showed him a written quite and he disappeared sheepishly.

I had a ‘time-served type chap in overalls come along but he askedme about myself, told me about his daughter etc which made me think I was being ‘pattered up’ for a sale.

BG are IMHO a bunch of fekking sheisters

quoted (and persuaded my father in law to sign) about £4500 for a new boiler – he has Parkinson’s and dementia. I rang them and cancelled and was pretty close to reporting them. Quote included all sorts of sh*te extras

they then kept phoning him offering discounts and even turned up with a boiler readyt to install despite the cancellation

Friend did it for a bit over £2k

They should change their tag line to:

British Gas, ripping off the nation!

BG = total rip-off, they quoted £2800 for a straight boiler swap……had it done for £1400!

BG told me 7500 and the woman wouldnt leave my house. She even offered to use her mobile to sort a loan out to get her the money.

In the end went local fitter and got a full new setup including all new rads and relocation for £2k.

I wonder if Watchdog is aware of BG’s tactics?

BG are the biggest blaggers when it comes to boilers, they often use rebadged boilers that are crap and charge way over the earth. I know a father and son set up who are both BG installers and they are minted. BG trade on their name being the last word in anything gas and they know people won’t go elsewhere. They make a killing on installs and they only use contractors to install them on a fixed rate.

I used to work for honeywell and been called out to to sort out numerous problems on BG installs where they’ve even fitted a thermostat directly above a radiator 🙄

I’d rather walk through the yellow pages before using them

How can the father and son set up be minted if BG only use contractors on a fixed rate?

I’d have thought BG would screw their subbies to the wall

BG pay incentives to engineers for selling additional products eg new boiler installs, powerflushes etc etc.

Their ‘surveyors’ (salesmen) are also on commission.

Who would have predicted that this could lead to accusations of mis-selling and overcharging?

Watching with interest now !

Got hacked off with local plumbers never turning up, house is covered by BG call out if boiler breaks down, that service is brilliant, normally with us in 24hrs.

The normal plumbers and BG have pointed out the Boiler is on it’s last legs. About 12 years old and a hard water area, it breaks down a couple of times each winter. Mother board has shorted out, switches sticking, hot water but no heating etc etc.

Not our house, landlord has asked for a quote to fit new boiler 🙂

BG rep is coming next week.

Really looking forward to seeing the quote now. I suspect the local plumbers will be more perky about coming round to fit a new boiler ££££ than coming round to fix an old one ££

So take the BG quote, then half it for roughly the true cost then 🙂

I’ve had the “this boiler’s pretty old, you won’t be able to get parts for it” line from BG a few times. Last time I pointed out that we’d had several parts replaced in the preceding months and the (independent) guy who did the work didn’t seem to have any problems getting hold of them.

Their service engineers get a bonus if they can persuade you to get a new boiler, hence they just try it on…….

We have an Ideal Mexico. Needed work last year, took two weeks (from memory) for our chap to get the parts, then done. Seemed reasonable.

Pre-BG plumbers hinting about it on last legs, next doors is playing up as well, 12year old estate so all houses most likely have the same boilers, and similar lifespans.

Plumber left us for 3 weeks mid-winter with no heating or hot water, you know that really cold winter few years back…..****..”thought your water was heated by electric”
Had issues getting parts (most likely forgot) as not paying we had to wait, land lord approved plumber an all that.

So we(landlord) go on BG, call out is fine, service has been good. On signing up they pull this little number “due to the age and make we might not be able to fully maintain your system” that was last winter, they have fixed it twice now, again service call out is swift.
Excited now about how high the quote will be, and which local plumber will do the job. (due to lease set up, boiler is landlords domain and cost, and i doubt they will go BG if it’s going to be 2K+)

If this thread is still active next week, i will drop back and update, but the oncoming comments are interesting reading.

BG keep telling my parents the same, boiler is about 30yo as well. If it ain’t broke then don’t fix it, still works perfectly OK

We’ve just had a 20 yr old boiler replaced (we are one of the last in the street with the original boiler). It was a relatively straightforward swap – so not really any new pipework, but took 1 guy a little over 2 days to do, and he had to add condensate waste sump outside etc.

– attempt to fix old system (2.5 hrs).
– remove old boiler
– powerclean system (it was manky so even although I am cynical I could see the point)
– install new boiler
– install magnetic filter
– commission and test
– 5 yr warranty (with no need to sign up to a “service contract” – they guy will just come out to do it for his hourly rate).
– new flu (not sure why needed but next door had theres replaced too during a boiler swap so assume it is a requirement)
– install condensate waste including digging up concrete and putting in lime trap/sump etc.

Total cost £2100 inc VAT.

Neighbour paid £2400 just before Christmas from same work from another local supplier. BG quoted them £2700 more; a competitor was just under £2k but there was some funny vat behaviour going on there so she wasn’t interested.

Parents paid £4500 about 2 yrs ago… with a special offer, and government scrappage schemes …can you guess who did that?

The elderly owners before us paid 8k for boggo kitchen units. Around the corner an old lady paid 10k for a house alarm.

I got one installed in an old office for £450.

There really are some **** in this world

Shark – Mexicos are nice simple boilers with very little to go wrong. I’d be amazed if the parts aren’t available for a good few years.

Yes they may be inefficient, but how long will it take to get back the 2K spend on a new boiler install, plus factor in maintenance costs for new boiler as a more complicated beast so potentially more to go wrong.

Is the existing system well controlled, insulation up to scratch, may be better to invest here first?

If one of my elderly customers was in a similar position I would probably advise against changing it for changes sake.

We recently got a new combi boiler installed and took 2 guys about 2 days to fully fit it and involved the following:

– remove old boiler in utility room and cap of the supply pipes
– remove water tank, cyclinder and all pipework in roof space
– install new boiler in revised position in upstairs airing cupboard which required floor boards being lifted for new pipes
– new flue out of roof
– brick up and plaster old flu in wall
– fit new 22mm gas supply
– power flush
– install magnetic filter
– commision and test

Total cost of £2,900 incl VAT.

We got a quote from BG just out of curiousity and it was £2,300 more expensive than the above.

Don’t o BG for new boiler, rip off, however their insurance scheme is good value, however don’t let them force you in to fitting only their own parts you don’t have to.

30 yr old may still work, but I bet it isn’t quiet and I bet it takes longer to heat up than a modern combi, and doesn’t provide hot water on demand etc. Personally I wouldn’t want a 30yr old boiler.

I doubt a new combi could go in a cellar as they need to drain water and that doesn’t flow uphill.

Get quotes elsewhere, and make sure you get a remote programmable thermostat. We got Veissmann boiler and very happy with it

Bear: thanks for the info on the boiler. The only things that have gone wrong in the last couple of years are the built in timer (I got BG to fit an external timer but they wanted to fit a new boiler) and one or two thermocouples. Other than that its been fine.
The problem is that she’s old, her memory isn’t great and as its too cold to be in the garden she needs something to occupy her so she’s picked on the boiler!
I did tell her that she would never get her money back and that where she was going its pretty warm 😉 – this may have helped.
Spoke to her to her tonight and she’s cancelled BG so that’s phase one complete. Tomorrow we see the heating chap that we’ve known for 20+ years so will see what he recommends.
If it were me I’d also keep the boiler but she’s after peace of mind (these things only go wrong on Friday nights) so that may mean a new boiler.

Bit of a bump.

British Gas man came round to do a quote.

To supply and fit a new boiler is £3340.00 because it’s on sale -£400, because we have homecare contract -£150 bringing us down to £2790

Powerflush and magnectic filter £336
Worcester bosch greenstar 30 si boiler £1159
Fitting and bits £1160
clean up and removal £139

The Puma boiler is the wrong one for our house (orignal fitted boiler) we think the house is 12 years old, so 12 year old boiler, apparantly Pumas are lucky to get past 8years, and it’s a hard water area so it must be terrible to have lasted 12 years 🙂

Thats a rough breakdown on prices. Haven’t checked them out yet, but expected at least £800 to £1000 for a boiler, some google-fu to come on that front.

House is not ours, i am not liable for costs. I suspect we shall see a couple of local plumbers drop in for afternoon tea and drop off quotes as well, we might get a new boiler for next winter. Can’t wait to see if the plumbers quotes are close or loads cheaper 🙂 can’t see the property owner going with first shout of £2790 i wouldn’t !