I don’t think that’ll be the best choice of transport when oil runs out ^

im not sure it is going to run out.
crude oil being a fossil fuel is only a theory, the theory of Abiogenic oil production isn’t as popular but neither theory can be deemed to be absolutely true.

if i were peddling crude oil i would probably tell people it is running out too. that kind of marketing does wonders for profit margins.

it fits in nicely with all those really sane creationist types theories too which is always a bonus 😀

We will all visit the Malverns and loot Stoner’s wood supplies 😈

There’s an awful lot of Sahara desert. I understand it gets a fair bit of sunlight. I’m fairly sure we as a race can figure out a way to use that to make electricity – already done in Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS10_solar_power_tower

Balance of power will shift. The countries that generate fuel will be different. Life may become difficult for transitional periods as we adapt to the new regime. Wars of varying scales will be fought.

TooTall – Member

You lot do know that ‘oil’ isn’t just ‘oil’ don’t you? All that light sweet crude is getting scarce and the cruddy stuff is mostly what is left.

and it’s profitable to dig up and process the cruddy stuff at the current price of around $100/barrel.

it’s an environmental nightmare, but that’s not going to stop us.

a friend of mine flew to Canada so he could join a protest about the alberta tar sands, he completely failed to see the irony.

A tanker of crude oil has far more value than a tank of H2 would. That is, IF you could actually store the H2 long enough to transport it from say Iceland or wherever.

So we’ll never be able to do it? Don’t be daft molly

Don’t put words into my mouth – I’m just saying it’s not as simple as some people might think, including me before I learned more.

Not when it’s evaporated, it’s not.

The nice thing about water even when it’s evaporated is that it eventually ends up back in the sea, from where you can recover it *relatively* easily. It’s a lot easier than recreating petrol from atmospheric CO2.

<Cressers>
Aye, we’re doomed all doomed
</Cressers>

Don’t put words into my mouth

I didn’t – you were the one who started yabbering on about bringing it from iceland. I’m (quite clearly, I thought) talking about generating H2 to balance out peaks and troughs in renewable electricity generation, and the possible expansion of that for use in transport. The UK has a huge renewable energy resource, as do most countries – the problem is energy storage to balance out the peaks and troughs.

The nice thing about water even when it’s evaporated is that it eventually ends up back in the sea, from where you can recover it *relatively* easily. It’s a lot easier than recreating petrol from atmospheric CO2.

The unfortunate thing is that again, a lot of places are much further away from the sea than your green and pleasant land. They’re also where most food is grown. And guess what, it takes a huge amount of energy to run desal plants. The one here in Adelaide has just been mothballed even though it’s just been completed because even though we live in an effective desert, piped water from the River Murray is still cheaper. If it’s too expensive to run now, how expensive will it be when fossil fuels cost more, a lot more (and days of taking water out of the trickle that is the Murray long gone)?

As I said: if you can’t drive your car then you’ll be disappointed. If you can’t buy any food or have a glass of water, they you’d have a problem

Well obviously, I didn’t say it was easy for everyone to get hold of. I’m not a complete idiot when it comes to geography, I did get an A at GCSE so I know some places are dry and a long way from the sea.

I said it was RELATIVELY easy as in, water itself recycles and doesn’t all disappear. Oil, when burned up, is not coming back ever anywhere.

if you can’t drive your car then you’ll be disappointed. If you can’t buy any food or have a glass of water, they you’d have a problem

Well it’s a bit more complicated than that, as we all know really. Motor fuel isn’t just for getting your kids to gym class. It gets the food to the shops, it allows farmers to produce food (as do the fertilisers which are also made from oil), and loads of other things besides.

So if the oil ran out it would be pretty catastrophic, yes. And it would run out everywhere. Water isn’t going to run out everywhere, just in marginal places.

I’m not going to say one is more important than the other. Either scenario is pretty bad, and both will require a lot of dedication, initiave and hard work on the part of everyone to fix – policymakers, scientists, industry and all of you lot too.

Recently saw a programme about the rebels in New Guinea. They lived in the jungle and ran their cars on banana oil.

If anyone here hasn’t seen it check out Robert Newman’s (Yes, from Newman and Baddiel) A History of Oil Which IMHO is most entertaining and touches on most of the issues we have discussed here. I suspect there’s a lot more research behind Rob’s version than any of our posts. Stick with it, the Tony Blair impression is worth waiting for.

This also helps me even out the bad Karma of working for an oil and gas company.

I’d say the outlook is pretty bleak if you like stuff, warmth and food, and you might one day have kids who would like the same.

*shuffles off to check the pumps are still running – I hear it’s chilly at home*

I’m not a complete idiot when it comes to geography, I did get an A at GCSE

I got an A at A-level and they still weren’t discussing the geopolitics of hydrocarbons – which is basically the next 150 years of the news.

Anyhow, enjoy yourself while we’re still running on ancient sunlight.

there are buses ere in Munich that run on Hydrogen.

why are we not using hydrogen engines in cars?

when it comes to geography, I did get an A at GCSE

I got one at A-level, so ner…

My point is that they’re all interlinked, and if a H2 economy (or equivalent) can’t be created, then shortages of fossil energy for transportation and agriculture; coupled with climate change induced drought will make the availability of water and food far more of a concern than the oil itself.

I said it was RELATIVELY easy as in, water itself recycles and doesn’t all disappear.

With regard to large parts of the world that abstract groundwater, you might as well burn it, because it sure as hell won’t be available once the aquifer is dry.

why are we not using hydrogen engines in cars?

See above – because diesel is still widely available. Hydrogen is very hard to create (it takes a lot of energy), store and transport.

With regard to large parts of the world that abstract groundwater, you might as well burn it, because it sure as hell won’t be available once the aquifer is dry

Yes of course, but again the water isn’t GONE it’s just somewhere else. If people put the same effort into water as they do oil, there’d be gigantic renewable powered desal plants on the coasts of continents and huge pipelines transporting it around. If it became expensive then maybe ****witted Americans in the SW would stop spraying it all over their golf courses.

If your bored and have an hour to spare before impending dooooom this film/documentry with Micheal Ruppert is an eye opener and discusses “Peak Oil”… he has some interesting points. ”Dooomed I tell ye”
Don’t have nightmares, live life and enjoy yourselves.

Peak Oil, yesterday’s news.