C'mon Grum

Lets talk about David Kelly first! Then you can tell me about how Labour have a right to govern the country in the name of the common people!

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly no fan of New Labour and their policies re civil liberties – but dismissing all of Labour's achievements by comparing them to an exaggerated version of what New Labour have done is pretty stupid.

And the Tory government locked up plenty of people without trial btw.

I'm not dismissing all Labour have done – but I honestly don't think it offsets or justifies the damage, debt and bad law they've produced in the process.

Edit.

sent people to prison for five years for suffering from mental health problems

So they made it an offence to be mentally ill? Or are you referring to a particular miscarriage of justice?

If you think you are living in a police state, you are very much mistaken. I do not think that the things you mention can be implemeted on a large scale at the whim of a few people.

And as for debt (or any of the rest of it to be honest) – what makes you think any other party would have been able to do it differently?

The problems of being governed by a group of people are huge, but there's really no alternative.

in the last couple of years we've seen the loss of the right to trial by jury, the loss of open independent inquests and the internment of people without evidence on the word of a politician, we've replaced courts with on the spot fines and sent people to prison for five years for suffering from mental health problems (ASBO's) – sorry, thats not theoretical and wild eyed rhetoric!

A bit alarmist the loss of right to trial by jury, only in certain circumstances. Although the right of trial by jury must be an absolute.

Thing is it's all well and good to point this out, but will a possible future Tory Government repeal all of this?

Labour – Smoking ban in public places – suprised no ones mentioned that yet.

That's probably the one thing I'm grateful to them for.

Seriously ratty, do you not sometimes get just a little embarrassed about the rubbish that you post on here ?

Now I know that due to your extreme far right views you find the Tory Party leadership too left-wing for your liking.
But surely you are intelligent enough to realise that to describe what we've had for the last 13 years as Socialism under a socialist government, just makes you look, to put it bluntly, like a prat ?

I generally ignore much of your silly diversionary tactics ratty, but I feel slightly moved to respond to this :

"Ernie – do you honestly and truly believe that the lives of 'ordinary working people' were benefitted by the actions of the unions in the late 1970's?"

I can quite honestly and completely truthfully say, that in my entire life, strike action has at it's worst, caused me very very mild inconvenience. At best, it's had no effect on me at all. It has never affected my life in any appreciable way at all. And I believe that to be also the case too, for the overwhelming majority of ordinary working people.

What has effected me throughout my life however, has been my conditions of employment, my work environment, the remuneration which I receive for my labour, job security/insecurity, etc, etc. They have all affected my life in a very profound and fundamental way.

So the answer to your question is yes. Ordinary working people benefited from the actions of unions in the late 1970's. Although obviously big business didn't. And in just one way this can be seen, is the fact of how the wages as a percentage of GDP, have dropped by 12% since the late 1970's. Britain is a low wage economy due to weak unions. Bad news for ordinary working people, very very good news for big business.

Now lets get back to the subject……….surely if the Tories are as great as you claim they are ratty, and since they've been in power for far far longer than any other party in British politics, then they have introduced far more great reforms which have benefited ordinary people than the Labour Party – no ?

I mean, it would be awful if they had only managed just as many great reforms as the Labour Party – wouldn't you say so ratty ?

So list all these great Tory reforms which have fundamentally changed the lives of ordinary British people. And I'm talking about stuff like the decriminalisation of homosexuality and the Race Relation act, to give a clue what I'm after.

I note that you choose to ignore my comment that the primary victim of strike action since the 70's has not been 'big business' but the state employers – the NCB, Schools, Councils, Fire brigades etc.

Selective memory again?

Now, on topic again, lets look at the representation of the people act, which allowed women equal voting rights – over 50% of the population were affected by that one Ernie!

and how about the Factory acts?

lets look at the representation of the people act, which allowed women equal voting rights

Do it didn't.

It was the Equal Franchise Act which did that.

Now answer my question.

Now I see that you've edited your last post ratty, to include "the Factory acts".

Which one you talking about ……1803,1833,1844 ???

And are you really struggling that hard to find something relevant to the "last 100 years" ?

'Fraid you'll find its official title was the

Representation of the People (Equal Franchise) Act 1928

😀

Ah, but while you're arguing over names, the Qualification of Women Act (1918) and the Sex Disqualification Removal Act (1919), arguably two acts which led to women getting the vote, were passed under a coalition government.

Well you needed to be more specific if you didn't mean the 1918 Act ratty. The 1928 Act is generally referred as the Equal Franchise Act. How about now being more specific about which Factory Act you mean….. the 1803 one ? Or all the ones passed by Labour governments ?

EDIT : don't bother. You are obviously struggling hard finding any great Tory reforms at all. And I'm getting a little bored now.

For whatever reason I presumed that there must be something they did that fits the 'great' criteria but there really isn't is there?

Anything on here?