In light of the British MTB brands thread, I am wondering what we all think of as ‘British’.

I am not a cynic, in the sense of saying that, because we live in a cosmopolitan world with a global economy, there is no such thing as ‘British’ anymore. I think there is. I am just not always sure what makes something (a company or a product) British.

I mean, apparently, some Chinese company has started building MGs again. I don’t know if they’re manufactured in the UK, but if they are, considering their British origins, should we think of them as British? What about Minis? I know they’re BMW, but…

So, what’s British?

Designed and manufactured within Britain = British imo

Yep designed and built/made in the UK.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU[/video]

built from metal that was quarried as ore in britain and smelted using coal that was dug in britain, cooled with water that fell in britain, after originally being evaporated from Britain

That EDL thing is brilliant! Having said that, I was thinking more about the fact that – and here I quote wikipedia, so it must be true – ‘Entry and mid-level Orange bikes are built in Taiwan…’

Is there a point at which a company’s national identity is strictly notional? Perhaps, and perhaps it doesn’t matter. 😐

I am interested, though, in what MG has to say about itself. They’re clearly trying to identify with the concept of an historic British marque called ‘MG’.

Designed and manufactured within Britain = British imo

All components?

Self righteous jingoism?

Unless everyone atom of oxygen used in the smelting process has been exhaled by a British tree, it’s foreign muck as far as I’m concerned.

Made In Britain

IIRC Mazda MX5 designed in Britan for the British market and built here.. ? Does that make it British?

Difficult thing to pin down these days. I’d say it’s where the ideas were created, the design done, and any craftsmanship carried out. So the MX5 counts, as do Orange, because they were simply made elsewhere using standard techniques to a British pattern. Presumably, anyway. If Orange simply specified geometry and the Taiwainese company actually engineered tubes and such, then it’s a joint effort.

So would British include the whole of the United Kingdom, British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies ?

All gets a bit messy really. Lots of people are not even sure what the United Kingdom includes.

The MX-5 was designed here but never built here.

However Nissan Qashqai’s are designed and built here.

Wikipedia seems to think the MX5 was built in Hiroshima!

There’s a lot of tosh about brands, with lots of archetypal leather and walnut brands owned by some multinational holding company, though I read the other day that Wedgwood was bringing a lot of manufacturing back to the Potteries.

I’ll forgive a small company outsourcing its manufacturing to China and still calling itself British. But wtf is a whisky company doing using the word “cuvee”?

Designed and manufactured within Britain = British imo

In fact to be ‘made in <insert country of origin>” its a question of not where all the bits were made or sourced from but where the most ‘value’ was added. With something as simple to produce as a cheese or a wine – something with one principle ingredient made with one process is easy to say where something is ‘made’. With a car, or a bike, or a phone or a computer, something with dozens or hundreds or thousands of parts, each or which has gone through multiple phases of refinement and production before all those pieces finally become the product then that item has been ‘made’ in hundreds of factories and probably in hundreds of countries but the majority of the value is added when all those components come together in one place to make the thing the buyer actually wants

If we take a bike as an example – I could have a bike made for me by a UK frame builder. The metal ores probably won’t have been mined in the uk, or the metal smelted in the uk, or the tubes made in the uk, but sticking those tubes together adds more value than all those previous processes put together. Lacing together japanese hubs to french rims with swiss spokes in a little shop to the north of glasgow makes that wheel a british made wheel.

In fact at lower price points if you imported a far eastern made frames and components and only laced the wheels together in the uk before bolting it all together than doing that alone makes the whole thing ‘british’

There was a certain low-end bike brand who had “Made in Britain” stickers on their bikes – when challenged, they admitted that only the “Made in Britain” stickers were actually made in Britain 😀

Lacing together japanese hubs to french rims with swiss spokes in a little shop to the north of glasgow makes that wheel a british made wheel.

But Big Al has a US-made spoke machine, I’m the only person in the country (probably) using a genuine British-made spoke making machine. Though I’ve just ordered a Cyclus one, so I’ve sold out.

SaxonRider – Member
So, what’s British?

For people, you are British if you speak with a British accent otherwise you are legal alien like me.

For products, regardless of where they were made/manufactured but if they are shite then they are. British or not. Shite product is shite.

😯

maccruiskeen – Member

Lacing together japanese hubs to french rims with swiss spokes in a little shop to the north of glasgow makes that wheel a british made wheel.

The one I always loved is Fender guitars. Fender had their USA range of genuine US made guitars, and their Mexican range of genuinely mexican range guitars. The US range were better (genuinely; built to a higher spec, with better parts) and more expensive. But there was a big gap in the middle

So, some genius hit on the idea of taking incomplete guitars from Ensenada, taking them across the border, and finishing the assembly in the states to make the “highway one” range, “American made” A couple of parts changed but 90% of the guitar was identical. Cue lots of americans declaring them to be far better than the mexican instruments 😆

Coincidentally, the American range- with no change in quality- went up in price at the same time.

What constitutes ‘British’?

A group of people who’s collective egos in their quest for identity and belonging has determined to associate with one another to form a group identity often to the exclusion of those out width that group and with excessive importance placed upon it?

Though I’ve just ordered a Cyclus one, so I’ve sold out.

You sir are a cad of the highest order!!!!

Anything made by clothed people of Belgic origin?

Orange always outsourced to Taiwan, certainly Clockworks in the early 90’s were.

In the world of multinationals what is British is almost meaningless.

‘Made in Britain’ is hard to find these days, Orange are ‘made in Britain’ (or at least most of them are) but if you’re talking a full bike they’re certainly not, and who makes the tubing? is that made in Britain?

But ultimately it’s an outdated concept, even things that are meant to be me in one place or others, often are made of parts that are made elsewhere – Rolls Royce for example, ‘Made In Britain’ well they’re assembled in Britain – but the mechanical parts are almost sent over in kit form from Germany, but they’re not German either because those parts were made globally.

Also take my Cove bike, it’s not British, it’s Canadian, Cove will tell you it’s 100% Canadian, welded, painted and assembled in Canada – out of tubing made by Easton, who are an US company, who make their stuff in China wearing a Fox shock, which is American, but made in Taiwan.

For me, it’s the Company, not the Manufacturing – Dyson is a UK company, it pays it’s taxes in the UK, it has it’s HQ here, it’s does it’s design and R&D here – it makes the cleaners in the far east, but it’s a UK company.

Bakewell tart innit.

And a Raleigh Twenty.

And Brooks saddles.

despite being taken over by an Italian company, Brooks remains as British as it has ever been.“For us, it was very important to keep the British identity,” Meneghelli says. In fact, being Italian made it easier for the new owners to identify what ‘British’ meant and keep the legacy going.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/brooks-saddles-standing-test-time-120988

You also need to split brands from manufacturing to a certain extent.

To give an example. I’m a bit of a sucker for quality made English shoes. I have a few pairs, primarily from Crockett & Jones and Cheaney, but also have Edward Green, Church’s and Jeffery West shoes. We also have a number of pairs of Dr Martens in the family as well.

All the above mentioned are undeniably thought of as British brands.
Crockett & Jones, Cheaney, Edward Green and Church’s all have factories in Northamptonshire making their shoes (as do John Lobb, Trickers, Grendon, Alfred Sargeant etc). C&J and Cheaney (not sure on the others) have or have had a range of driving shoes, these are usually made in Italy. But anyone buying them would still class them as British.

Jeffery West buy in all their shoes, from people like Cheaney etc, but a large proportion of their range is made in Spain, Italy etc, but again they are still seen and advertised as a British shoe company.

The interesting one is Dr Martens. Assumption is they are a British company.
Originally not, they were German. They became ‘British’ in 1960 when a UK company bought the patent rights to make the shoes in the UK.
They still make a ‘Made in England’ range in their factory in Northamptonshire but most are made in Vietnam, Thailand etc. So technically not a British brand but known worldwide as such.

The Brands are the key thing although people in other countries do search out the made in Britain aspect of their purchases, hence why Dr Martens can charge £250 for a pair of boots made in the UK, but £100 for very similar ones made elsewhere.
Barbour are another good example, they do still manufacture in the UK, but a lot is made overseas but they are still classed as British.

From the opposite side there is Mini. Land Rover, Jaguar, MG, ROlls Royce Cars, Bentley, Aston Martin. All are British brands, all have manufacturing (and design for some) in the UK, but none are UK owned.
Everyone sees them as British though.