Based on feedback from a three recent job applications, my general engineering skills are found to be lacking. The interviews were for Design/Mechanical Engineer positions.

I’ve got a good research background for a 27year old, in a fairly niche area (surface engineering, materials science). I think that my publication history helps me to get an interview. After the interview, I am then seen as a being too specialist for the role.

Since those interviews, I’ve rewritten my CV to highlight my transferable skillset, including the aspects listed below.

Besides…
– CAD/CAM software proficiency
– Problem solving
– Networking
– An ability to use scientific and technical expertise
– Good sense of humour
– Stress analysis (FEA)
– Data handling and analysis

What else would you expect from a “general” engineer?

Good sense of humour

Are you serious?

Don’t engineers spend their lives solving problems?

Good Sense of Humour

Do you also like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain?

HansRey

What else would you expect from a “general” engineer?

Drives a lifestyle estate, frequently makes progress. Rides a mountainbike. Knows he can fix everything on it, but “can’t be bothered”.

(Sorry).

a superiority complex

A lot of Design/Mechanical Engineer positions are building services based, is this the case with the roles you are applying for?
If so, they almost exclusively come through graduate programs which teach the basics of how a building works. I would not be surprised if you struggle to get one of those roles to be honest, particularly if you are looking for similar money to another candidate who would require less training.

General engineering?
Depends on what field of engineering, for where i am it’d probably the nuts and bolt level stuff. Experience of the hardware/manufacturing/machining/welding/tools side of things.

Having a good basis in research doesn’t help much when trying to actually get stuff to production……… There is a lot more to delivering a product than just doing a good design.

What sort of jobs are you applying for?
Maybe they’re looking for experience of taking something from a spec to production, and that isn’t just doing the CAD.

Does the field you’re looking to get in to require any knowledge of hydraulic systems and circuits? Control systems? i.e. Hoe to move kit around using a hydraulic power supply, logic circuits, valves and cylinders?

Can you produce fabrication drawings with your choice of CAD package?

Without knowing you (personally, or on the forum) if you’ve come from a research or academic field then you might find that your skillset is more in line with what they’d expect from a Graduate Engineer and you need to pitch yourself lower and expect to advance quickly rather than go straight in at Design or Mechanical Engineer level.

Hope this is useful and not condescending, apologies if it comes across that way!

/edit – to confirm what some the less sarcy posts above point out, is that the scope for a ‘Mechanical Engineer’ can very enormously.

My thinking is it’s the non-specialist stuff.

Your surface engineering might be able to tell me the waterflow over the drum of my washing machine would be improved by polishing it.

Would you be able to work out why the drum wasn’t revolving? This would involve mechanical, electrical or electronic engineering and you’d need general engineering skills to work out what was wrong.

Competent use of hand tools.
Can you file a large piece of metal square ?
The first month of my apprenticeship consisted of this , using alot of engineering blue.
When it was completed to the supervisors satisfaction , he put it in the bin.
The “engineers” who work at our place would struggle to change a light bulb imo…

Have you got much project experience?

The skills you’ve listed above are all good stuff but the difference on actual engineering design projects is stuff like:

– Interpreting the scope of work and client requirements
– Working in a multidisciplinary team
– Quickly picking up new ideas or work prcoesses
– Managing budgets and working to deadlines

Have you got examples related to the above that you could use in the interviews?

– Problem solving
– An ability to use scientific and technical expertise

Those two shouldn’t be in a list but require a sentence or paragraph each to demonstrate that you are not just listing cliches

– Networking

I take it you mean data networks and not chatting to people if it is the first put your actual skill, if it is the second FFS get a grip.

– Good sense of humour

save it for a dating add.

Have you had anyone look over your CV?

Someone who knows what they are looking at rather than someone to check spellunk und grammur.

The “engineers” who work at our place would struggle to change a light bulb imo…

True but they are probably the ones who designed the electrical network that the bulb uses 😉

For instance, I can’t install, fix or do very much at all for your gas boiler. I can however (as part of a team) design systems that will extract the gas, process it to a suitable specification that will allow it to be safely and consistently delivered to your home in such a way that you probably won’t even notice.

For the OP though the skills you listed are all core skill skills for an engineer. It may however be the case that the companies you are apply for are looking more at your ability to do the “metal bending” end of things rather than your ability to say how the metal should be bent and into what shape.

Definitely need to know what sort of “engineering” is being discussed, could be anything from hammer throwing to frikkin laser work.

– Good sense of humour

Still hoping this was a joke

if its construction/manufacturing they’ll want safety and quality competencies

These are taken from our list of “approved” questions. You need your CV to give you talking points on things like this…

Focus on outcomes for the employer, not you (might be difficult given your background)

Give me an example of where you’ve had a conflict/difference in opinion with a colleague, and how you dealt with the situation.

Describe three to five things about the communication within an organization that must be present for you to work most effectively?

What project/body of work you’ve been involved in give you the most pride?

How would you communicate a complex Technical problem to senior management who are time poor?

Give me an example of where your analysis was wrong, how you handled it and what you learnt?

Can you file a large piece of metal square ?

Mill it square and file out the machine marks 😉

When it was completed to the supervisors satisfaction , he put it in the bin.

Hardly surprising people aren’t rushing to take up apprenticeships. Wot a nob.

Seriously… I studied physics and the university got so concerned about the fact that students couldn’t build anything when they finished, the year 2 labs were replaced with sessions in the workshops learning how to build all the equipment we might need for our final year projects.

Wonderfully esoteric course, covered CAD / CAM, technical drawing, electronics, using lathes and milling machines and other stuff ranging from welding to glass blowing.

Does the uni you’re at now offer a similar program?

I suspect they mean you lack any real experience of working on an engineering project?

Being able to do the maths side of it (or FEA, CAD, anything else) is probably barely 20% of my actual job. The rest of it is the constant drudgery of churning out deliverables and reports and attending meetings. Which is as much engineering as the maths is, it’s just not taught at university.

For example, the process engineers will size all the lines and say where they want the valves, the mechanical engineers will design a very good pipe rack and access platforms, staircases etc. But they still need someone in the room at the review who’s sole job is to check the ergonomics because they will have stuck those valves 6ft in the air, above some other pipes, or install a manually operated gate valve in a 30bar, 60″ line. That’s where the actual experience comes in.

If you have a phD but little else then I’d look at Graduate programs. Once you’re in, and getting to grips with how big project work, then start networking your way into the niche you want to be in (I’m guessing materials specialist?).

Competent use of hand tools.
Can you file a large piece of metal square ?
The first month of my apprenticeship consisted of this , using alot of engineering blue.
When it was completed to the supervisors satisfaction , he put it in the bin.
The “engineers” who work at our place would struggle to change a light bulb imo…

I’m guessing given the OP’s degree, he’s not looking to go into metalwork. I’d be amazed if any of the mechanical engineers in our company have any kind of welding certification, heck it’s probably a minority that even own a torque wrench.

I think they are looking for evidence you’ve escaped from behind your PC and done a bit of practical stuff, visited a few jobs etc.

I’ve learned more in my 9 years in this job by getting into my ‘lifestyle estate’ and ‘making progress’ down to see our jobs/customers/suppliers in real life, and occasionally even putting my overalls on.

Some of the smartest design Engineers I know have absolutely no practical experience – which I feel puts them at a disadvantage.

This nails it –

Being able to do the maths side of it (or FEA, CAD, anything else) is probably barely 20% of my actual job. The rest of it is the constant drudgery of churning out deliverables and reports and attending meetings. Which is as much engineering as the maths is, it’s just not taught at university.

When it was completed to the supervisors satisfaction , he put it in the bin.

Hardly surprising people aren’t rushing to take up apprenticeships. Wot a nob.

no. you just don’t get it, which is ok, you’ve got a degree. 😉
it’s about learning to stand there and keep going at it until what you think is good enough meets someone else’s requirements. when you’re <20, young, dumb, and full of enthusiasm, it’s a lesson well learned. i know and work with some excellent engineers but some of the stuff they’re prepared to lash up makes me cringe.
‘it’ll work’ is what you often hear.
‘but the customer will think we’re a right bunch of see you next tuesdays’ is what i think.
‘give it here’ is what i say. 😀

once you’ve made the ‘dice’ you usually get to make toolmaker’s clamps, tap wrenches, toolboxes. useful stuff you might keep and use for the rest of your working life.

Good feedback above, folks. I should add that the list in my original post isn’t copied from my CV. My CV is adjusted depending on the position and I back up whatever attribute I’m selling (e.g. data analysis) with proven and quantifiable examples. The CV has been checked over by 3 persons, two of whom I haven’t met in person and know nothing about me. Two are material engineers and one works in recruiting.

– Good sense of humour
Still hoping this was a joke

-Surely this is important! Obviously this does not belong in the CV, but being fun and engaging during an interview is beneficial.

The term “general engineering” puzzled me. But it’s come up three times in feedback, hence asking you lovely folk for advice. I’ve always believed that an engineer will have a particular specialty (mine being materials processing) but with a broader set of skills that complement that.

I’ve been working for an applied research company overseas. Project budgets that I have managed for the company have varied from a couple of thousand euros to a smidge over a quarter million. A lot of the work revolved around writing reports, publications and meeting the client(s). The research was almost secondary.

thisisnotaspoon – I’d be amazed if any of the mechanical engineers in our company have any kind of welding certification, heck it’s probably a minority that even own a torque wrench.

– Actually, I’m trying to get back into metallurgy, particularly on the process end (machining, forming). When I find a job, I will sign up for a welding class. Having some practical experience is always helpful, especially on a shop floor.

Del – Member

Apprentiship………………

yadda yaddda yadda lathe

mumble mumble mill

*sucks air through theeth, drinks tea*

:p

Different ends of the engineering spectrum, at the equipment manufacturing end maybe that sort of practical experience is worthwhile. At the engineering projects end less so (IMO).

To me ‘site’ experience was two lessons:

1) Meet the know it all’s in manufacturing who will ignore your instructions and give you a pump on a perfectly square welded together skid, filed down by the painstakingly by the apprentice, when what you actually specified was a bolted together trapezoid, now go and discuss with the monkeys in construction once they’ve finished playing the ‘rich western ex-pat’ in some singles bar in a dodgy part of town how you’re going to solve this because it’ll neither fit on the lorry or into the space on site.

2) Want stuff done, ask operations for their input first, and bring cake and/or pies depending on time of meeting and location.

no. you just don’t get it, which is ok, you’ve got a degree.
it’s about learning to stand there and keep going at it until what you think is good enough meets someone else’s requirements. when you’re <20, young, dumb, and full of enthusiasm

Just put this question to my dad who ran a pattern makers (as did his father before him) to get his opinion, as they took on a lot of apprentices.

His view is the same as mine – it’s little more than bullying and serves no useful purpose at all. Should make it clear though that he regularly took sub-standard work off people and chucked it in the bin, but in your case what happened is that hard work and technical excellence was treated disparagingly, which helps no one.

* I assume the square you filed was perfect…

In summary of the comments so far on what is needed as an engineer,…

I have…
– Project work experience
– Project management experience
– Experience of multidisciplinary teams
– A willingness to learn new processes
– Experience managing budgets and deadlines

I don’t have…
– Experience of taking a product from a conceptual stage to production
– Working experience of other engineering fields (e.g. electrical, systems, machine)
– Fabrication experience (e.g. welding, milling, forging, printing, NDT)

Looking at the latter list, they’re attributes which would be most easily gained by having the correct working experience or task-specific training and certification (e.g. NDT training).

Hardly surprising people aren’t rushing to take up apprenticeships.

?? I am lead to believe that every Apprenticeship offered in any sort of engineering / technical area gets massively oversubscribed / swamped with applicants.

Yeah, but the best people for the role aren’t applying.

I don’t understand “general engineering” either, and I is one. Engineering is a huge range of specialisms. I worked as a civil engineer and there were branches of civil engineering I wouldn’t have been any good at let alone other engineering disciplines. Oh and don’t tell me engineering is all about project management these days. Someone has to design and build the stuff.

We’re taking on 8 apprentices (in different disciplines) this year, from last years numbers I’d expect 1,500+ applications

Unless I’ve missed it, you’ve still not said what sort of jobs you’ve been applying for?
Remember to tailor your CV too – e.g. £250k is massive to some companies, yet won’t even show on the radar in others

Someone has to design and …tell the PM what to put in the plan before you …build the stuff.

FTFY 🙂

Chin up OP – sounds like your CV is getting you in the door, you just need to find the right company to hire you.

I’ve ordered a run of 12 prototypes parts at slightly over €100 grand each.

Ok, i didn’t actually place the order, but i raised the internal paperwork for the order. So the buyer could go and muck it up and make sure they arrived a month late.

First job i ever had we had to get sign off from gods boss (ok, thats what it felt like) to get approval for any single purchase over 50 grand…….

Oh and don’t tell me engineering is all about project management these days. Someone has to design and build the stuff.

You are absolutely right. However those who design and build the stuff generally have no concept of time or money – which is where project managers come in… ;o)

In my line of work ‘design’ more often means cut & paste and change the client reference.

They’re probably referring to what is covered in an apprenticeship. My engineering apprenticeship lasted 9 years including Uni – started initially in the training school then hands on on the shop floor rotating between Fitting, Electrical, Electronic, machining and sheet metal disciplines before heading into the drawing office learning about tool making and engineering drawings, engineering specifications, tolerances etc. All this took 4 years while completing a sandwich BTEC course at college. It is this that I would consider my basic or general engineering training – its not engineering as such, but as an engineer you have to understand how engineering is applied real world. Then after University and a 2 year post grad training/apprenticeship which focussed on how engineering organisations and businesses work, so alot about quality, Product Change governance, international standards, Intellectual property, and how to comply to them, the economics of engineering and manufacturing, a smattering of law and contracts, H&S, COSHH etc. After all that I was finally let loose on the real world doing real engineering work and 20 years later, though i’m not in a direct engineering job now – i’m still learning. Engineering is a very broad discipline and the word Engineering is a catch all for a huge and varied industry.

I guess all you can do is ask what it is they are looking for – but ultimately it’s not necessarily something that should stop you getting a job. When I was starting out the paradox was companies wanted people with experience, but without experience you couldn’t get the jobs to gain the experience they were looking for. I had lots of knock backs before I was eventually taken on. You just need to keep trying.

It might help to join an Engineering institution – that is another measure by which you can demonstrate your actual skills that you have accumulated that are not covered via a any formal qualifications you put down on your CV.

Oh and don’t tell me engineering is all about project management these days. Someone has to design and build the stuff.

I’d say the line has become very blurred.

Rough headcount in this project (front end engineering)

Process – 16
THSE – 8
Process Control – 6
Electrical – 2
C&I – 2
Mechanical (Piping & layout) – 4
Mechanical (Static equipment) – 4
Mechanical (rotating equipment) – 4
Project Engineering and Controls – 15 (plus 2 project managers, and a client team)

By the time it moves to procurement and construction the number of ‘engineers’ doing any actual designing will drop into single figures, after that it’s mostly project management and procurement. There’ll be 1000’s involved on site building it at some point though, and probably an equal number of people manufacturing components in factories all over the world, But by that point the ‘engineering’ has all been done, after that it’s just following instructions.

But it depends what you consider the ‘engineering’, the well paid jobs in an air conditioned office somewhere in the South East, or the welder in a sewatshop in India. It’s a strange one because everyone Knows Brunell the engineer, yet ask them what an engineer is today and they’ll assume some sort of metalwork, or the guy who fixes their boiler. There’s no way Brunell ever hammered the rivets into the Great Britain. If he was alive today he’d probably be a project manager.

wobbliscott – You’ve got a fairly wide set of experiences. How has Professional Membership helped your career?

I’m a Professional Graduate member of IOM3, on track to Full Membership (MIMMM CSci). I’m also an Associate member of IET, but I’m on the fence about whether to work towards full membership. For both IOM3 and IET, i need a mentor for the Chartership application process, ideally from my future employer.

…my general engineering skills are found to be lacking. The interviews were for Design/Mechanical Engineer positions.

OK, so they didn’t say “project management skills”…and we’re looking at a mechanical design / manufacturing type role…

For me it boils down to being familiar with Engineering practice. Much will be sector specific, but underlying it all is an appreciation of how things are made / put together.

This will translate into being able to suggest with sensible, common ways of doing things – picking a sensible number and size of fasteners to hold part A to part B (and know how to do the calculations to check it at some point if needed, but your first guess should be pretty close); knowing roughly how thick something needs to be to hold a tapped thread; knowing that if something needs welding that it will distort things, so you might need to specify some machining afterwards; knowing the lingo – the difference beween a bolt and a set screw, a counterbore and a countersink; familiarity with stuff like common fastener sizes; having an appreciation of tolerances: is +/- 0.1mm a tight tolerance? For a milling machine? A cut-off saw?; Having a passing knowledge of common processes: e.g. turning, milling, broaching, annealing, hardening, ageing, forging, plating, wire eroding, water cutting, bending, rolling, extruding, casting, etc… etc… – not in detail, but a broad awareness of what each process entails and how common it is – obviously biased towards whatever is used in your sector.

I don’t think you need to have worked our way up, “man and boy” and done all these things yourself, but in a mechanical design type of role, I think you should be aware of what is involved and be able to ask the right questions about any of them.

There’s no point designing stuff without one eye on how it will be made / used / maintained.

Anyway, what do *they* mean by “General engineering skills”? Ask for more feedback. 😉