If we wanted the fat people to chase the rolls, do we need someone to create a bread roll cannon randomly programmed on distance otherwise they might just stand where the rolls land with their mouths open.
They are just fat, not stupid (usual caveats apply), and they are being incentivised to figure it out

Not sure ‘fad’ is the right word. Calorie restriction isn’t considered a fad, is it? But low GI eating probably is. However we’ve shown that excessive calorie restriction can be counter productive, and that eating to satiety with low GI food can be very good.

As I’ve said before, last summer I did plenty of riding and successfully ate little, I stayed 90.5kg or thereabouts. My metabolic rate slowed and my maximum intensity reduced (although I was fitter overall and had great endurance). I slacked off since about November, ate normally (including treats), didn’t do a lot of riding and this morning I was 89.3kg.

For me, what works is the right kind and amount of riding AND the diet to support that. They both have to match and complement each other.

If we wanted the fat people to chase the rolls, do we need someone to create a bread roll cannon randomly programmed on distance otherwise they might just stand where the rolls land with their mouths open.

No need to create a bread cannon. Just use the most projectile shaped bread.

So a baguette in a rocket launcher should be fine.

A baguette? That could be really dangerous, would be like high velocity sword swallowing with bread

Remember the audience of some of these articles. As this is a mountain bike forum (insert joke about nobody riding MTB here) we are probably not that target audience.

A lot of the British public think exercise is driving to the gym, spending 15 mins on the recumbent bike followed by a bit of a dance around and that will have earned them 1000 calories for the fish supper they pick up on the way home.

Agreed with above though, I can run and cycle 6 days a week and although I will get fitter, I will lose very little weight. The only way I lose weight is by restricting what I eat, by cycling as well, I don’t need to restrict my diet quite as much.

Yes, and restricting it too much might also stop you losing weight, perversely.

Metabolism has to constantly vary to cope with environment you are in and what you are doing. If you live in a heated environment and do nothing then I can conceive the body being able to lower its metabolic rate. However, if my body hadn’t responded to the cold and exercise during the outdoor swimming session I’ve just finished I’d have either drowned or would now be in hypothermia.

including treats

you mean fruit. 😉

*continues munching a sweet, crunchy, juicy, delicious apple that is banned to i-Davers*

I think the article that Molly linked to is only talking about resting Metabolic rate.

I’m sure metabolic rate goes up and down in these people in response to temperature and so on. But since most of us spend most of our lives in a heated environment doing relatively sedentary things then the resting metabolic rate is what’s important.

continues munching a sweet, crunchy, juicy, delicious apple

At this time of year? Eco-vandal!

At this time of year? Eco-vandal!

Autumn stored apples are still good to eat now, a little wrinkly but still juicy.

I confirm, origine: France.

Go for a walk for an hour (or more if you have time), that’ll raise your metabolic rate for the duration of the walk and some time after even when you are resting.

It would be interesting to see whether this effect is seen in ‘all’ people who have lost significant weight or whether the brutality of the biggest loser regime is special.

A 3500 cal daily deficit is pretty scary.

Matt

These dieters are an extreme case though, aren’t they?

I read the original link citing people who’d been on that Biggest Loser program, so forgive me if there was a more thorough study done on more ‘normal’ cases….

But, do we know if this extended period of reduced metabolic rate even after weight gain occurs in ‘normal’ dieters who are perhaps trying to lose a couple of stone at a rate of 1-2lb/week??

For me personally, it’s all largely psychological. If I am trying to lose a bit of tub & exercising regularly then I find it much easier as I have worked hard doing exercise & don’t want to ‘ruin’ that effort eating crap.
Somewhat illogically, if I am not doing any exercise then I think that it doesn’t really matter if I eat that cake/muffin/takeaway pizza because I’m not trying to keep fit.
Case in point, since my daughter was born at the end of October last year, I have barely done any exercise. It was almost 5 months since I got on a bike. During that time I put on about 7lbs.
Now I am getting a small amount of riding in (during my lunch time at work) I am much more motivated to compound my ‘good work’ by not eating crap at any given opportunity.

Apologies if this has been linked to already but quite an interesting article about not exercising as sole means to lose weight.
Why you shouldn’t exercise to lose weight.

Walk 30km a day for a month with a 10kg rucksac whilst eating slightly more than you normally do and you’ll lose weight. Pretty much every pilgrim we met on the way to Compostelle found they were losing weight. I normally do at least 10 hours of sport a week and my weight is fairly stable around 67-68kg. However, after a month of walking 7-8 hours a day I was down to under 66kg and pigging out just to keep going.

Amused at the attempted insults from molgrips. I actually am a scientist and I know that well established facts do not get overturned by the occasional special case in a small study in some corner of the subject. I also know that there’s a mountain of money chasing medical explanations because there’s no profit in saying “eat a bit less and take more exercise” even though this would solve the weight problem (perhaps more importantly, prevent the weight problem from developing) for the vast majority of people.

I also know that there’s a mountain of money chasing medical explanations because there’s no profit in saying “eat a bit less and take more exercise” even though this would solve the weight problem (perhaps more importantly, prevent the weight problem from developing) for the vast majority of people

What exactly do you think my point was when I posted the article?

Someone sent me another similar article the other week. That one was also talking about metabolism. It was suggesting that your body also responds to small calorie changes. So if you need 2500cal normally if you restrict to 2400 then you will initially lose weight but then your body will adapt to the new norm. The only plus sside ofthis was that it worked both ways so the odd slice of cake wont be a priblem either. They tied this in with macro nutrients and gaining losing muscle along with recovery from excercise. Interesting stuff, Ill see if I can dig it up.

http://www.climbing.com/skills/climbing-nutrition-understanding-your-metabolism/

“I just love doggy treats, it’s in my genes. Ruff!”…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36170267

Is there something wrong with a slow metabolism? Doesn’t it just mean you are more efficient, haven’t we seen car manufacturers lie through their teeth to show just how slow the metabolism of their cars is, if it’s a good thing for a car why not for us? 🙂

I can see why it might have had some evolutionary advantages in the days before central heating but otherwise what good does it do us today other than allow us to indulge in eating more pies, actually that is probably reason enough isn’t it. And are there any studies looking at metabolic rate and longevity? i know that there have been studies in calorie restricted rodents but I was under the impression that although early studies indicated an increase in lifespan with severe calorie restrictions other evidence has contradicted it or at least showed no advantage.

One thing I do know for sure though is that if I ever want to lose weight I just need to run. As it happens I really don’t want to and when I am running need to eat despite not being hungry to maintain my weight.

Is there something wrong with a slow metabolism?

Only if you are trying to lose weight 🙂

But I think it’s also linked to recovery and adaptation to exercise, perhaps?

Is there something wrong with a slow metabolism?

Only if you are trying to lose weight

But I think it’s also linked to recovery and adaptation to exercise, perhaps?

If you have a slow metabolism and want to lose weight surely the answer is just eat even less and move even more 😉

Ever tried that?

Wouldn’t science be better and more useful if scientists just agreed with each other instead of all the academic bitching and whining?

molgrips – Member

Ever tried that?

It was said in jest.

But the only time I’ve ever made a concerted effort to lose weight I maintained my exercise levels and counted calories. Went from 74kg to 69kg – it was pretty shit if I’m honest, and hard work, but the results I got made it worthwhile for me.

Before that I always hovered somewhere between 72 and 76 depending on season.

Wouldn’t science be better and more useful if scientists just agreed with each other instead of all the academic bitching and whining?

no?

But the only time I’ve ever made a concerted effort to lose weight

Well that in itself is interesting. It was the first time you tried it. If, like me, you’ve been on and off the wagon many times then, according to the article, I might be making it harder for myself.

Certainly it was physically easier last summer to eat little and ride lots than it’s ever been – but I lost no weight. My body seemed to wise up to what I was trying to do. First time I iDieted I lost 10kg, then I gave up (new baby) and subsequent efforts were less and less successful.

I am forming the opinion that changes in exercise/diet are what matter. Your body adapts to whatever you do to it, so you need to trick it. So for example, the iDiet was a huge change for me having never done anything like that before, and I lost 6kg in the first two weeks. Now, two weeks of strict iDieting has basically no effect.

Your body adapts to whatever you do to it, so you need to trick it.

Is that like sitting on your hand till it goes numb first or using the other hand ❓

Serious question, what if you are an alien and your body doesn’t respond in the same way as normal human beings?

It’s not like there’s one ‘normal’ human being response to compare to…

Yeah, I can see that, but if you were an alien, your physiology might be way outside the normal human range. what then? ‘I just have big antenna’ isn’t really going to cut it when you’re asked to explain your sudden weight gain on a diet of lentils and water.

Equally it might go the other way, but who can say. It probably depends what sort of galaxy you’re from originally.

Ignore him, he’s got the labrador gene for no self control.

You’re gonna have to spell it out a bit more BWD I’m afraid.

6kg in two weeks equates to burning over 3000 calories a day of body fat a day (and that’s assuming you have rather watery body fat). We assume you ate something in those two weeks so either you were super active or in fact you just ended the two weeks very dehydrated.

One day you will adopt eating habits that match your energy requirements, you may even start eating a loosely Mediterranean “diet” (the name has “diet” in it but it’s really just “way of eating” because the aim isn’t to restrict calorie intake, the aim is to eat stuff that’s healthy in healthy quantities). You will definitely replace your “treats” cupboard with a bowl of apples. Till that day comes, your weight will yo-yo and you’ll have a guilty feeling every time you eat.

Go on, Molgrips, just try eating sensibly from now on – no more dieting, no more “treats”, just what your body and mind need to be healthy and active.

You’re gonna have to spell it out a bit more BWD I’m afraid.

I was just trying to help. Back to the X Files box-set for me…

Did you see the interesting Guardian article about portion size btw:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/25/problem-portions-eating-too-much-food-control-cutting-down

We just need smaller plates and bowls and stuff. And as for wine glasses… 🙄

Ignore him, he’s got the labrador gene for no self control.

Heh.

I know lots of people who’ve tried the smaller plate thing. They jsut went back for seconds or snacked later.

Go on, Molgrips, just try eating sensibly from now on – no more dieting, no more “treats”, just what your body and mind need to be healthy and active.

And the really annoying thing is that you think that’s something I’ve not already tried, and is not something I take into consideration. I don’t just sit around on a sofa scratching my balls all day, you know. And I don’t fad diet. I try, and I experiment. As opposed to thinking I know it all and telling everyone on the internet…..

6kg in two weeks equates to burning over 3000 calories a day of body fat a day

You should know that muscle glycogen stores weigh about 3-4kg with the associated water so using up most of that, and some fat, could easily account for 6kg.

But you can theorise all you like – that’s what the scales said! Or am I now too dim to operate bathroom scales correctly?