Hi All,

Bit of advice please. I’m getting a bit bored with the trail centres and all that man-made stuff and would like to go a bit more off-piste, ie Brecons, Snowdonia, Quantocks, Mendips etc.

Whilst the trail centres all look the same, the route signs get you round but when I try to follow route maps it seems to double the time it takes to get around.

Are there any tips for using non-trial centre trails so that I don’t end up stopping every 100 metres and querying if the route is through that gate, or that track?

Is there any phone apps (android please) or devices that can be recommended?

Thanks

Simon

I find the best bet is just to have a vague idea of where you’re going and head in that direction and pick up trails as you come across them. I tend not to worry about differentiating footpaths and bridleways, though.

After a while riding an area you pick up the good and bad stuff and what can be ridden at what time of year and then you really only have to stop for gates.

When I was exploring bits of Scotland I found Strava very useful (I had no idea where I was going). Before I left the house I compared other peoples Strava rides with OS maps and photographed said maps with Strava routes over layed. It meant I didn’t have to carry the OS maps with me, and I could refer to the photographs if my GPS or data wasn’t working. Taking care to charge your phone.

I believe some combination of Strava Premium and maybe a Garmin Edge 1000 will let you do what you need to do without the faff I was doing, but since I’ve not used either I can’t be sure.

contact the locals and tag along with gps, go back and explore. If your in Bristol your so close to loads of great stuff – why not FoD its even closer.

Loads gpx tracks to on forums sites

Strava global heatmap in one window, Bikehike in another. Find tracks on former, trace them into a route on latter, download the GPX route 🙂

All of the above, but you also need to put the work in with a map on the ground first, and just get used to frequent stops and getting to know an area by studying a map and using waypoints, landmarks and ‘reading’ the landscape so you can relate it to a mental map. You’ll quickly learn the ground if you go back a few times, and if you approach trailfinding this way then you’ll become more attuned to finding trails in areas you don’t know – so you can ‘use your nose’ better. You’ll need patience for this, but it’ll pay off in the long term.

It’s easier when you are out of arable land, i.e. on the fells as there’s fewer trails but sometimes there’ll be farm or estate track as well as the right of way. There *should* be a BW sign if the ROW isn’t obvious but this varies from area to area, in national parks you are likely to have good signage as the paths and BWs get heavier use so there’s more need so as to avoid annoying the locals when you end up in their back garden 8)

Get a proper map (or maps) of the area you intend to ride and figure out where things go, the 1:25K maps are better as they show walls and fences. Published routes will follow legal rights of way (for obvious reasons) on the 1:25K map bridleways are lines of long green dashes, there’s a couple of other ridable ROW types marked up in a different manner.

Sometimes though, things on the ground just don’t match what the map says and it takes a bit of working out. Occasionally the OS map will show the legal ROW as a sweeping line that heads over a 500ft cliff 😮 I don’t think this one http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=325030&Y=502760&A=Y&Z=120 even exists as a footpath!

It meant I didn’t have to carry the OS maps with me, and I could refer to the photographs if my GPS or data wasn’t working. Taking care to charge your phone.

Depending on which bits of Scotland you’re referring to, I wouldn’t be reaching the same conclusion. I don’t know exactly how much an OS map weighs, but it isn’t much, even to leave in the bottom of a pack with no intention of using it. Even the most freshly charged phone won’t help you out if you’ve just dropped it in a stream…

Obviously I’m coming with an assumption that we’re talking about the wilder, remoter places. This probably is an unnecessarily cautious approach if you’re exploring the Scottish equivalent of the “out the back of Nationwide”

All of the above, but you also need to put the work in with a map on the ground first, and just get used to frequent stops and getting to know an area by studying a map and using waypoints, landmarks and ‘reading’ the landscape so you can relate it to a mental map. You’ll quickly learn the ground if you go back a few times, and if you approach trailfinding this way then you’ll become more attuned to finding trails in areas you don’t know – so you can ‘use your nose’ better. You’ll need patience for this, but it’ll pay off in the long term.

This. OS maps (1:25k for preference) show an amazing amount of information if you make the effort to read them properly, but it’s not spoon fed to you. Sure you might have to stop more often, but you’ll also have to actually look around and think for yourself more often, rather than just be led by your phone, and that’s part of the fun/challenge. As above – once you get used to it, you start being able to memorise chunks of map and you know roughly where you want to head and how roughly how to get there, then you start picking up the obvious signs on the ground that fit the mental map. You actually learn the area, not just use it.

The problem with using a phone for navigation is the limited battery life, need for a data connection, plus they’re a bit too fragile to be mounted on your bars. Of the free apps I’ve used, OruxMaps for Android is pretty good. Lets you plan, import and edit routes and you can cache maps too. It doesn’t have OS maps though.

In the long run it’s well worth brassing up for a dedicated GPS unit with OS mapping, like a Garmin Dakota or a Satmap Active. Having something sat on your bars that you can quickly check when you come to a fork in the trail makes things much easier.

Even the most freshly charged phone won’t help you out if you’ve just dropped it in a stream…

What happens if you get your map out and it blows away?

edlong

if my GPS or data wasn’t working. Taking care to charge your phone.

Depending on which bits of Scotland you’re referring to, I wouldn’t be reaching the same conclusion. I don’t know exactly how much an OS map weighs, but it isn’t much, even to leave in the bottom of a pack with no intention of using it. Even the most freshly charged phone won’t help you out if you’ve just dropped it in a stream…

Obviously I’m coming with an assumption that we’re talking about the wilder, remoter places. This probably is an unnecessarily cautious approach if you’re exploring the Scottish equivalent of the “out the back of Nationwide”

No, just places a wee Irish fanny like myself can ride to and from in a day without venturing too far from civilisation. Looking for natural routes and trails in places around Glencoe for example.

If I was being more adventurous I wouldn’t take such a cavalier attitude.

Quantocks is easy for the main stuff. Small area and lots of good trails last time I rode there. I learnt how to get around by riding up to the top then riding down anything vaguely interesting looking.

That was pre strava. These days you can probably go knowing where all the good bits are so just string it together as a loop.

Tip for strava is to find a segment with loads of riders then look at the rides of the top few people to see where they went. Start by simply following them and building up knowledge. IF you are not prepared to blindly follow a Garmin then building up knowledge of an area takes time but is really satisfying. Going from clueless to knowledgeable local and being able to show others new trails is really satisfying.

Ask on here for a guide is also an option. Worked for me.

Even the most freshly charged phone won’t help you out if you’ve just dropped it in a stream

I’d do more damage to a paper map than my phone by dropping it in a stream.

To the OP, pretty much whatever you do will be slower. The nature of trail centres is that you can ride flat out pretty much all the time. Any natural trail will require some stopping/slowing. If you go somewhere with lots of trails in a small area you can just ride whatever looks good then check your position (here a phone/GPS is better than paper) and head off in a direction. Quantocks and Mendips are good for this. For bigger rides in bigger hills then you really need to do a bit more planning, following and checking as heading the wrong way can mean a big climb home or missing the good stuff.

Just get out with a paper map and explore. Follow your nose. If a trail looks good, give it a go. Forget how long stuff takes, just get out and have a go. After a few rides you’ll know the best way round to ride stuff and what to avoid. This is the best way as you’ll ride everything and decide for yourself what’s good.

Shortcuts to this are heatmaps on strava, or best of all – go out with local rider.

As Freddie Mercury famously said: “Just get on your bike and ride”. Theres nowt up with getting lost. I’m always doing it. Theres loads of times when I’ve fond some really interesting trails, but ended up miles away from where I thought I was.

Head out with no plan and just ride down anything that look interesting. Its England. Its hardly likely that you’re going to end up stranded miles from civilisation. You’re rarely more than a couple of miles from the nearest McDonalds

Whitestone makes a good point that it’s actually easier to navigate out cycling in the big country [although the consequences of getting lost / bad weather, are more severe].
Plan the route at home and you’ll often find you have it sorted in your head and you’re just getting the map out from time to time as insurance. Loads of classic MTB routes in the UK are like this – navigation is trivial.

Where it gets to be a ballache is if you’re following a route through farmland, say, with 100 turns and you getting the map out every 5 minutes. I guess that is where a gps on the bars comes into its own.

For the first couple of trips along a trail, ideally have a map board on your bars.

Yes it may look a bit silly, but comparing navigational ease when I’ve done a MBO event with the above setup to the faff and stops when I’ve ridden with the map in a pocket (even when it’s one I can get to easily) it’s worthwhile.

If you fold the map back on itself on all the creases then you will be able to easily arrange it in your map board so you can see where you are going and the surrounding area for a good few km. You can do this out on the trail of course, but it’ll be easier if you’re prepared.

In Scotland I have relied more on GPS/satellite photos as maps aren’t necessarily marked with all routes, but this has been with some knowledge of the trail.

The easy way of course is finding someone that can lead your round the loop.

I always thought trails centres were off-piste…

I always thought trails centres were off-piste…

More like taking the … 😆

We live in the best-mapped country in the world and the 1:25,000 OS maps are superb for mountain biking. You’d need the 1:50,000 maps for road riding though.

Back country navigator is the best app option for work instantly OS IMO. one off payment for full 1:25k ordnance survey, you download the map area onto your phone to use off line. You can download and overlay gpx files from friends or websites. There’s a course creator so you can draw your own routes etc etc…
It’s much easier to take a phone out of your pocket and instantly see where you are. Paper maps just don’t hack it on a bike.

Slightly off-topic but whenever has that stopped anyone …

I prefer to keep my phone for its primary use when out in the hills rather than waste its battery for navigating/recording.

A GPS device is useful for your immediate vicinity but to get a feel of what’s around you also need a map. Perhaps the main problem with maps is that you need to know where you (roughly) are.

If I’m going to a new (to me) area then I will always buy the maps.

I recently returned from a roadtrip with some exploring involved, I used viewranger, great app, good maps and the ability to tell you where you are on said map even with no mobile signal. It’ll upload gpx files as well

Being a pre-trail centre dinosaur, your observation about taking twice as long with a map is bang on, so don’t beat yourself up about it. The only way to get to know ‘natural’ areas on the ground is to spend time in them and linking it all together. You need patience and a different mind set, because you’ll only get frustrated and demoralised if you take the mctrail mentality out with a map to a place you don’t know.

The bridleways of Dartmoor are a good place to start..

They are very clearly marked on the OS maps and could easily be graded red and black in trail centre terms so you get a lot of bang for your buck

Pretty much what Faustus said. You’ll get better at tying the things you see on the ground to things you see on a map as you practice more, especially contour lines 😀

I’ve always found it really useful to look over routes using satellite photography in advance (and afterward) too. OS maps do have symbols for vegetation types, but satellite imagery seems to give me a much better memory/anticipation of those kind of landscape changes, trail surfaces and widths, etc.

I find my phone in a pocket works okay too. Viewranger is a really handy app if there’s an area you’re going to ride in a lot, though it has a slightly annoying tiles and micropayments system with a minimum spend of £8.99 for 30 map tiles. You can import GPX files and lay them on top of the OS map.

Bikehike

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rOcKeTdOg – Member
Bikehike
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bikehike, wheresthepath, strava and others are all useful for finding, maping, planning and route creating.
I often use bikehike to create a course and save as gpx file, download to phone, overlay on backcountry navigator, follow. Altho BCN has it’s own course creator now, it’s still easier to use a bigger screen.

I love just exploring even if it is a potentially inefficient way of finding new routes – plus I love riding on my own (easier to mince then!). Ok using Strava heatmap can help a bit but much better IMO to use a map and your nose.

I have recently been exploring an area near home and found loads of hidden stuff and quite a few dead ends. Led me to hidden trails well beyond my capabilities (a few painful offs) and few walks back up hill. But that is all part of the fun as I found some hidden crackers.

I find the surfaces on TCs scary at first as they are so different to the stuff on most natural routes.

Viewranger – download map (I use Open Cycle maps which are good enough), research, plot route, follow… Simples. No need for mobile signal (I usually turn off mobile data to save battery) and my phone is waterproof. Pack a spare battery, or even a spare phone if you’re worried.

Once you’ve done a new loop once, you can then go back in future and explore at points off that loop, with the aim of rejoining your original route further along. Means that the amount of time you spend exploring can be matched to the amount of time you have, and you can explore a really wide area.

Mate at work uses Strva Pro + http://veloviewer.com to plan routes.
Like the OP he is a beginner at “proper mountain biking” but is a bit of a techno freak re using technology rather than maps!
Me I just get the map out and meander 😉

Depends how you view it. Stopping to map read can be viewed as a pain in the butt, or, see it has having a bit of an adventure. It’s the unknown outcomes that provide the biggest and memorable experiences IMO. For me, trail centres are very forgettable, but rides in the outdoors have returned me some moments I’ll never forget…the best moments don’t come without a bit of effort..

Reading your post again I’ve not really answered your question. In trying too though – whilst there are gadgets and stuff to help show you where trails are – unless you’re specifically following a GPS track, if you’re on new ground you’ll always be stopping lots no matter how good your map reading is. On a bike you travel so quickly over ground there’s only so many map features you can remember before having to get the map out for another look…

Use Tracklogs or similar to program it into a GPS, then follow the line. You still need a map as backup, but it saves all that stopping and farting about.

Pay for an OS subscription, map a route using OS online. Then switch to a GPS site that uses satellite or Birdseye view, and zoom right in to see what the land looks like. Plot a route on the mapping site and download it to GPs or phone, print he OS route on one or two sheets of A4 and stick them in a plastic bag for emergency. Go and ride. And accept it takes longer to get round a given route, but that’s what we’re out there for anyway….gives you time to look round.

Not seen any single track marked on OS maps. Find and use gpx files for the area to find the trails. If you want bridle way well then OS maps are very good

OP I am a confirmed fan of natural rides and spend hours pouring over maps dreaming and making plans.

For your phone (and computer) I’d highly recommend an OS maps subscription, you get 1:25 and 1:50 maps on your computer and phone and live mapping, so grab your phone from your pocket and you know exactly where you are. Also Viewranger is good for route / gpx following. Bikehike is excellent too.

Get out there an explore, get lost a bit. It’s all part of the adventure

You’ll need a compass with them there maps yours about to buy .

Having just done (and really enjoyed) my first proper few rides in the Lakes away from trail centres, using an OS map (and constantly getting the thing out to look at) and a book with routes in, what would be the best GPS to use just to follow other people’s GPX files. I’d want something bar mounted, and not too expensive, and not a lot of messing about downloading maps, etc. I’d be happy just to follow a breadcrumb route, but a nice route plotted onto a map would be nicer.

Thanks in advance.