No worries, I was not trying to single anyone out.

Drugs in cycling has been a hot topic for as long as I can remember.

Have you read the book on Tom Simpson?

So he grassed every one up to reduce his own punishment.

He complied fully and as a result the authorities didn’t come down as hard on him as they otherwise would have done.

What would you rather he did? The usual clamming-up “no comment” stuff that most cyclists prefer? You call it “grassing up”, I call it “cooperation”, either way I’m glad he did it

an awful lot of people on stw seem to tell people what drugs they’ve taken at every given opportunity-its always struck me as a little odd that.

Vuelta has been ace though! (although in 5 years we’ll probably look back at it as ‘the bad old days of doping’!)

slow hand clap for that one. thanks. a slip of the tongue if you will, and now my analysis is worthless? brilliant.

Well when folk get obvious facts wrong it makes me have less faith in their analysis.

apologies for having an opinion on a discussion forum.

No problem with you having an opinion just with you having the wrong one 😉

in the event of you actually starting to die, you could always stop reading

Ah bless you I am really startng to warm to you now 🙄

Right if this is how it is I may as well learn something without the aid of google.

What had Contador done & how long was his recent ban?

an awful lot of people on stw seem to tell people what drugs they’ve taken at every given opportunity-its always struck me as a little odd that.

Right on.. this Vuelta does indeed apeal to the racer in me.

my general opinion on drugs (ectasy aside) is that they might as well let them crack on with it.

IF they are all on drugs in this tour then BRING IT ON. as this race has been properly spectacular.

absolutely stunning racing every day, berty knocking out 10 – 15 attacks a day is just staggering to watch, and a perfect antidote to the slightly dull (although resultswise perfect) TDF

the only thing i can’t get my head round doping wise (as you may have gathered above) is why we defend some characters that are guilty, whilst remaining sceptical/distrustful/disrespectful towards others.

Contador had a steak. He then tested positive for a banned substance (clenbuterol).

Think he got 2 yrs

my general opinion on drugs (ectasy aside) is that they might as well let them crack on with it.

Who’ll be the one to teach kids to inject themselves with EPO to ensure they make it through the amateur ranks?

From what event was it he tested positive?

Glad you edited that I thought for a minute it had turned him into a heathen!! 🙂

hang on a second, we’re all almost starting to get along!

i *think* (cant be arsed to google) that berty was done as his excuse/explanation of ‘contaminated meat’ wasnt good enough for the authorities when finding clenbuterol (agent for leaning the body) in his system.

2 years. but retrospective, so think he basically took about 8 months out?

interestingly… Berty et al (actually might have been during his ban, in which case just berty’s team) stayed at the same ‘contaminated meat’ hotel this year…

woulda thought it would be one to avoid after a 2 year ban 😉

the only thing i can’t get my head round doping wise (as you may have gathered above) is why we defend some characters that are guilty, whilst remaining sceptical/distrustful/disrespectful towards others.

Acts iof contrition, admitiing the offence, and appearing to reform and change alte rhow many pople ract to cheats

Perhaps [ not a dig] as you would not object to fully doped races, you care less about whether they admit it and what they do afterwards.
Most do care how the cheat reacts.

FWIW Contador alleged beef – could not prove he had bought it let alone eaten it and his blood also had plasticers [ not admissable] whihc show it was transfusion related

Ashenden also said his biological passport showed clear signs of systematic doping iirc.
I was more “hurt” by this than LA as his style is nice to watch and it was shame to see him as dirty

I am slowly being drawn into roadie world. I’ll be going back to Norfolk for the ToB this weekend. Been reading a lot of books and doing roads miles as the MTB is still in storage.

Now I’ve done some reading and ridden with some ex-team types, I get a lot more out of watching the racing and riding the road.

Returning off-topic. Iirc Millar is on the WADA athlete committee, part owns Garmin Slipstream a staunch anti-doping team and constantly goes on about racing clean to the point of boredom and predictability in any interview he does. He just can’t hold it back. I don’t think you can get anymore anti-doping than that. Millar served the full mandatory suspension and was not given a lighter sentence for compliance with the investigating authorities, although he did appeal for a sentence reduction.
His book was written several years ago and this whole LA thing had yet to flare up. IMHO, to even say what he said to LA, to document it and then to publish it was pretty strong stuff given when it was written.
Yes. There is a squeaky cleaness to DM as a post-doper and this is not to some people’s likings who believe athletes should be perfect and never make mistakes but it’s about being human.

Should the bans not be lifelong?

Transfusion? I have heard of this popping in an extra pint taken from when your biorythm’s were in perfect alignment, but FFS its a bit much isnt it? Would they really do that?

Excuse my spelling.

“Berty” was done because there is no excuse for clenbuterol in the rules. The Spanish Federation didn’t follow those rules and allowed hm off before CAS gave a ruling that he should be banned.

Supposedly, the steak came from Spain via his brother in law who’d come to visit him, hence the rest of the team didn’t eat it.

As to why we shouldn’t turn a blind eye to doping, I would say that it’s because it’s not healthy for mind or body to be cheating. If my son ever got into pro cycling, I wouldn’t want him to have to dope. As such, I extend the same view to other peoples’ sons.

Also, I can’t get excited about doped sport. It’s like watching Big Brother – eg fake real life.

As to Millar, the reason I would say that he is a positive for cycling is that he’s stating loudly that he doped and that it was wrong, lazy and not actually necessary now as he and other clean riders are winning. That for me is more important to riders coming through the ranks than anything else.

Oh and ref the Vuelta, great race. I want to believe it’s clean but struggle to given Contador’s involvement. On the positive he’s not winning whereas he’d have walked it in the past so maybe he’s playing fair but then again, he’s only just back to racing so isn’t on top form.

Perhaps [ not a dig] as you would not object to fully doped races, you care less about whether they admit it and what they do afterwards.
Most do care how the cheat reacts.

no that’s cool, i don’t take that as a dig, and probably agree with you.

i think for me that its so rife, and the line between ‘doping’ and ‘keeping the athletes in tip top shape’ is SO fine that i have general distrust for them all in some respects.

that said. i have massive respect for even the most smacked-off-his-tits of cyclists. as no matter how much EPO you are banging, doing 5 or 6 cols in a day, at an average of 25-30mph is **** badass!

tinsy – Member
Should the bans not be lifelong?

there’s an argument for it but tbh I don’t think it’d actually stop people doping. Better to ban them and more importantly have an impact to the team. That may be slightly tough on some teams were an individual chooses to dope but history shows us that at best, teams ignored the doping that they knew was happening, at worst and probably more the norm, were fully complicit. The teams allowed doping to happen. If doping gave a team a suspension (for x races say) then I’ll bet they’d be much more careful on who they hired and on keeping tabs on them.

and appearing to reform and change

So long as you appear to reform your alright by us.

the only thing i can’t get my head round doping wise (as you may have gathered above) is why we defend some characters that are guilty, whilst remaining sceptical/distrustful/disrespectful towards others.

In the case of Millar, you just need to look at his actions since he returned to cycling. The work with Slipstream and the WADA Athletes Committee. Genuinely believe he wants to clean things up so that people coming into the sport aren’t faced with the same dilemma.

Other’s get busted and come up with some bull about a dodgy steak.

To criticise cyclists for not naming names and pointing the finger while still involved in the sport is harsh. Good on those who do, but they do so knowing they’re unlikely to work in the sport again, let alone win anything.

Looking at those who have named names. They tend to get vilified, marginalised and ignored by the sports governing bodies (see recent article by Jorg Jaksche as an example.) Maybe the recent example set by USADA will being to encourage people to name names in future. I do hope so as there are many who many suspect should not be involved in professional cycling.

Blood transfusions tied to biorhythm cycles?
Nope. It’s the tried and trusted method of training at altitude and then withdrawing the blood to be stored and used at a later date (ie. When U R shagged).

Clubber I would think taking away a livelyhood & all those years of training & denial up the spout would indeed make individual’s think twice about doping surely?

But yes hitting the teams, would hit the sponsors & hit them financially.

tinsy – Member
Should the bans not be lifelong?

Lifelong ban for a second positive I reckon.

Although there are cases of people making mistakes, probably the most famous is that chap who was using cold remedies in one country, bought the same brand in another country not realising that over there it contained a banned substance. Should that scenario result in a lifelong ban?

constantly goes on about racing clean to the point of boredom and predictability in any interview he does

My thoughts too. It was great to see him take a stage on the TdF, but even before he had fully caught his breath, he was going on about doing it clean. I suppose he may never be able to fully deal with what he had done. I’ve read the book too. The point where his team raced him until he broke. Wasn’t missed by me and I could easily see how it happened and for what reasons. Don’t forget also, that he was financially ruined too as well as being banned.

but it’s about being human
Yeap !.

Should the bans not be lifelong?
Is that one or two cans of worms sir ?.

Transfusion? I have heard of this popping in an extra pint taken from when your biorythm’s were in perfect alignment, but FFS its a bit much isnt it? Would they really do that?
You’re team leader, being paid millions to win. Yeap, with enough pressure, some riders will do, almost anything. It would seem. Not just specific to cycling either. Look at athletics.

I may get that Tyler Hamilton book, the secret race. But it would have to be the US version. Apparently the UK book is being re-written as I type.
🙁

Back on track…

Another uphill finish today I am hoping to see another duel between Contador & Purito. (getting right into it now, using nick names & everything, just hope I got the right one!)

Oh & as for off topic, nice to everyone has chilled out a bit with each other, even seems to be some agreement 😯

tinsy – Member
Clubber I would think taking away a livelyhood & all those years of training & denial up the spout would indeed make individual’s think twice about doping surely?

Do death sentences work? If a rider thinks that he won’t get caught or that he has to dope to be successful, many will (and clearly did) cheat.

In Europe, the top riders will start fairly young (teens) and work up through the ranks of clubs, semi-pro to a pro contract. Most are driven and once they learn that ‘you have to dope to win, it’s our secret’ either quit or accept and dope. It’s the culture that’s the problem, not the riders as such – that’s just the symptom – and the culture is driven by the teams and the UCI.

That’s why riders like Millar going on to the point of boredom about being clean is important – it shows that you don’t have to dope and it also breaks the Omerta that’s a massive part of the problem. Doping will never be stopped but if it’s talked about and more to the point made clear that it’s not acceptable (and in private, not just talking to the press) then that’s where things will get better.

That’s why riders like Millar going on to the point of boredom about being clean is important

And clean he is surely. He said so. Why would he lie?

Do death sentences work?

It works for me, there are lots of things I would like to do but don’t as I would not like the punishment. However I do have all the equipment should I decide to risk it one day. 😉

think today might be quiet with the favourites. 5% or so at the end will feel like downhill compared to the last few days!

It’s possible of course. I don’t think so but it is clearly something that should be considered.

My take is simply that he rides for a team founded by another ex-doper who wanted to turn things round. I haven’t yet seen anything to make me doubt that (and in fact as more comes out about USPS, I believe it more) so on balance I believe Millar.

think today might be quiet with the favourites. 5% or so at the end will feel like downhill compared to the last few days!

And for a mere 17km. Yeah I reckon it is a day for the rouleurs.

However I do have all the equipment should I decide to risk it one day

May be, but ask yourself. Just how much havoc can you create, armed with both a hole punch AND a stapler….
😉

glitchy bump

gilbert is my pick for today*

*maybe partially influenced by a slight man crush.

gilbert is my pick for today

So long as he says sorry for something first*. The naughty Belgian.**

*Acts of contrition, admitiing the offence, and appearing to reform and change alter how many people react to cheats

**maybe partially influenced by a slight man crush

no doping on his record. just pure manliness.

no doping on his record. just pure manliness.

Yes but has he explicitly said that he doesn’t dope? If not he should just appologise in advance because he is no doubt a

dirty foreigners doped up to the eyeballs

May be, but ask yourself. Just how much havoc can you create, armed with both a hole punch AND a stapler….

alex, you appear to be deliberately bating everyone, the arguing appears to have stopped, despite your best efforts.

I’m not deliberately trying to bate anyone actually.

Believe it or not.

Did anyone find a way I can watch the Vuelta online, for free ?.

I managed to catch the TdF on itv4.

alex222 – Member
And clean he is surely. He said so. Why would he lie?

It’s a fair question. I seem to recall something from his book about the whole Slipstream team undergoing regular in and out of season testing (independently verified).