Is it just me, or do others think the Vuelta is shaping up to be Froome- Dog versus a bunch of dodgy Spanish dopers?

I’d love to believe that Contador is innocent, but doesn’t the Spanish Cycling federation making his ban ‘retrospective’ look a little like an admission of guilt?

Plus the totally un-repentant Valverde wining stages, and Cobo’s suprising form last year, It’s looking like the Spanish approve of doping.

Having followed the TDF since Roche’s win, and beeing excited and disgusted in equal measure in the interveening years, it was wonderfull to see Evans and Wiggo deliver wins that I could believe in at long last.

Seeing the stance taken by sky and british cycling [particularly Wiggo] was met with some cynicism and snide comments from some euro media, what does the STW crowd think about the Spanish approach? Is the UK media holding back with their opinions in case the Spanish fans push Froome off his bike?
[Am I right in thinking Cadel Evans won’t ride the Vuelta because of a couple of incidents he experienced there in the past?]

Not trolling here, I’m no expert on the road scene, but 3 days in and I’m getting a little wound up with the Vuelta already. Just looking for some informed opinion [why am I posting on here then youmay well ask!]

Do your worst.

Do your worst.

You clearly haven’t a clue of what you speak and/or are a troll.

Thanks for that David.

what is getting tiresome after 3 days?

…idiots going about dopers with no +ve tests in the race.

idiots.

well suspicions can be raised about them all and the Spanish federation is less than robust having been taken to court of arbitration for Sports twice re this and lost them both

Its not good to see ex drug cheats/suspects/banned riders compete but I dont see what else we can do. I hope these days they are just a tiny minority and clean athletes can compete finally.

…idiots going about dopers with no +ve tests in the race.

You do know that Marion Jones never tested +ve?

Cynical Al,
I explained I’m no expert and was asking for informed opinion and you call me an idiot.

You sir, are a tosser.

It’s a Spanish race, in Spain, loaded with top Spanish roadmen and I expect the Spaniards are loving it.

The riders you mention are the creme de la creme of the cycling world, some who have cheated. Us Brits seem to think the greatest crime is not saying sorry, we all love a cheating scumbag that goes out of his way to say sorry.

aracer – Member
…idiots going about dopers with no +ve tests in the race.
You do know that Marion Jones never tested +ve?

folk were going on about it as she was racing?

Oh…and what about Lance?

Oh…and what about Lance?

I believe he did test +ve, but it was all hushed up?

You know what my point is…

I believe that professional cycling is the ‘cleanest’ its ever been. Sure there will always be a few ‘bad apples’ but lets give them the benefit of the doubt…….even the Spaniards!

The Contador issue was a joke, not caused by what the rider did but the ensuing debarcle that followed 🙁

I’ll watch it and i dare say enjoy it too!

we all love a cheating scumbag that goes out of his way to say sorry.

we have even have some wods for it
Contrition
redemption

We prefer them to say
unrepentant
denial
obfuscation

I assume everyone can see why they are different.

I do, it’s just boring, folk going on about doping without present evidence.

But lotsa folks love to get all moral eh? I’m always wary of those Victorian father types.

fingerbanger has had more grand tour wins taken away than anyone else.
If you want to read some good analysis
you’ll find none better than
http://captaintbag.tumblr.com/

Cobo’s suprising form last year

Not that much, a well known climber and former winner of the Basque.

Did you suspect Froome’s surprise form at the time?

Clearly not as Froome isn’t a suspicious foreign type

Haze,

fair enough, suspicion tends to fall upon any rider who suprises with their form, I suppose my question is how seriously does the Spanish federation take doping? or does it in-fact tolerate, or indeed facilitate it.

I am not surprised by some of the abuse I will get on here for asking a genuine questio, I remember the torrent of abuse Wiggins got on UK cycling forums for his rant against doping at the end of the 2007 TDF

I understand many cycling fans would rather have all the dope fuelled exciting performances than a clean sport, It’s just that I’d rather see a genuine competition.

I understand many cycling fans would rather have all the dope fuelled exciting performances than a clean sport, It’s just that I’d rather see a genuine competition.

So would I, if you are trying to polarise the arguments then you really are an idiot, IMO.

suspicion tends to fall upon any rider who suprises with their form

I guess the fallout from years of rampant doping will take a while to recede.

FWIW I believe Contador to be clean, he must surely be under the spotlight. Are returning riders subjected to more frequent tests?

Pro cyclists can be clean and still win races. Lance is a great example with 7 consecutive TDF wins.

Erm…Lance is under investigation with many people ready to testify against him.

Or was that a joke?

Froome last year had just come out of a long illness and was finally able to get some decent training in hence his form improving markedly – although I totally understand why Spanish media might have raised questions over it. Cobo has zero credibility in my eyes.
Any talk of no +ve’s is pretty irrelevant really, micro-dosing is next to impossible to detect if done right, autologous blood doping is impossible to detect if done right and who knows what research drugs etc are available to the few with the right contacts and enough money that tests don’t even exist for yet.

Pro cyclists can be clean and still win races. Lance is a great example with 7 consecutive TDF wins.

That’s the funniest thing I’ve read on STW since the picolax thread…

I have only recently taken an interest in road cycling, so I can’t comment on the relative performances, but having just finished reading David Millar’s book, I do not believe all riders are anywhere near clean… yet.

I think it is way too early in Vuelta to point any fingers, there is an awful lot of climbing still to come.

Lance has the best tweets.

I am very surprised Froomes form has not been questioned more TBH.

three years ago he was 25, finishing mid table in 2nd rate races. 2 years heavily interrupted by injury and respiratory illnesses, and he’s suddenly second in the Vuelta and TdF. Much more suspicious than Cobo IMO

And, guilty or not, it is GREAT to have Bertie back in the peloton. He actually races, and looks so good going up hills…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Froome

That guy has GOT to be doping.

Lance has the best tweets.

How are his secondhand brakes?

…do you follow Lance on twitter?

three years ago he was 25, finishing mid table in 2nd rate races.

The Giro is a 2nd rate race? 😯

Meanwhile, in Spanish Cycling Forums, an ill-informed, emotive and poorly researched debate rages into why Team Sky and the Brits are soooo much better than everybody else at the moment…

If you want to know more about doping in cycling you should read David Millars book “Riding Through The Dark” I am no expert on road cycling just an armchair TDF fan but it has opened my eyes and I now watch the grand tours with a whole new perspective.

In fact I have just finished the book so if anyone wants it email me your address and I’ll bob it in the post.

Seeing the stance taken by sky and british cycling [particularly Wiggo] was met with some cynicism and snide comments from some euro media, what does the STW crowd think about the Spanish approach? Is the UK media holding back with their opinions in case the Spanish fans push Froome off his bike?

I haven’t seen any sniping here in the Spanish media, although a “holier than thou” kind of attitude is just asking for it – it’s not as though British cyclists have historically been any cleaner than other countries. I also find it highly unlikely that a Spanish fan would push Froome off his bike, certainly anyone doing so would be pilloried in the press, and probably get a good kicking too.

The Spanish federation certainly defend their riders, and permit them to compete after suspensions – but then again that’s hardly unique, the British didn’t need to select David Millar for the Olympics either.

ive no problem with doping, but anyone caught referring to a rider as Froome-Dog should be banned from talking about the sport.

same rules for Bertie, Spartacus et Al.

…do you follow Lance on twitter?

Yeah, but more from inertia than anything else – he hasn’t said anything interesting for ages.

his coach says that he has a big engine but likened it to a Ferrari whereby if you thrashed it it beat anyone but would blow a piston through the bonnet, so they’ve had to learn how to manage his efforts differently so that he has the reliability for Grand Tours.

EDIT: Froomey that is

Spanish athletes are all open to the doping accusation whatever sport they are competing(cheating) in. The governing bodies of nearly all there sports only do what they are forced to do regarding positive tests. There is also the political interferance that pretty much dictates the outcomes. The bigger the sport, the more prestiges(S?) for the country and those with the most money can get away with it.
Operation Puerto is the classic example of a cover up to protect athletes. It could not have been shut down in any other Euro country, that undermines all Spanish authorities arguments that they are fighting cheating. I could be completely wrong though but I’d be interested to know who, what sports, the other athletes blood samples found in Operation Puerto came from.

Frankly I’m glad Beefy Bertie is back – pro cycling needs a good stock of panto villains.

A bigger problem for me, is my GF mentioned to me that one of the ITV4 commentators sounds just like Frankie Boyle, so now I can’t concentrate on the racing at all, I’m just waiting for him to lay into SuBo or something.

three years ago he was 25, finishing mid table in 2nd rate races.

The Giro is a 2nd rate race?

Fair enough, you’ve got me there, but 80th in the tour, then 34th in the giro, then two years off, 2nd in the Vuelta and 2nd in the tour…

how long would be an acceptable amount of time to take to progress to that level?

IDK, but surely there’s not much difference between finishing mid pack and finishing in the top few?

TDF this year, Wiggo and Froome only rode away from the pelaton twice. For the bulk of the riders finishing in the Pelaton every day consistently the difference between coming 100th and 10th is probably a TT and/or a mountaintop finish. So to elevate yourself from that to the podium is just making a single breakaway stick, winning was 2 breakwaways and 2 time trials.