This could be a slightly lengthy post so bear with me!

I'm thinking about my next car – probably not for another 8 months or so, but starting to think about now so I can sort out finances and start nosey around but I'm not sure what I'm after.

Just now, I really fancy a new Berlingo – had the previous version and thought it was great but over the weekend was chatting to the good lady and she suggested a camper of some sort (well motorhome in her words!). I think this is sounding like an idea but I've got a list of requirements and I'm not sure of the answers – so asking here to get opinions/advice and chat!

Ultimately this will my day-to-day vehicle and will do the 8 miles-each-way commute;
Will be used for transporting myself and 1 year old daughter 3 times a week;
I wanting decent MPG (but for that, I guess anything over 40mpg is preferred);
Cheap to run – I'm not wanting something that needs serviced every 4.5k miles, tyres that cost £150 each, etc. Something that needs serviced once a year and generally works.
I'm doing about 12k miles a year (at the most)
I'm thinking diesel but not ruling out petrol.
I'd like to be able to carry 4 bodies and 4 bikes comfortably plus riding and 'camping' kit (or 2 adults, 1 child, with 3 bikes/pram, etc.
If you can sleep in it then it is a bonus but not a necessity.
Flexibility to have the bikes in the back or on the roof/rear.
Something that is easy to keep clean – happy with the idea of a brush and brush it right out the back door.
Don't mind toys and stuff but I'm not overly fussed.
Although mpg is important, it would be nice to get a bit of oomph out it but I'm not wanting a hot hatch – my current car is 150bhp, previous one was 300bhp – both brilliant to drive but economy not braw.

In my head I'm seeing something like a VW Transporter (or similar) but that's about it…I've no idea if this is a suitable solution or if there are other things available – so what would you recommend?

At the moment, I don't do big road trips i.e. weekend away up North or anything, but that is down to family circumstances rather than not wanting to do it…as the daughter gets older she will be coming along to do rides as well (although mum/dauighter might not do the same as me) so it is something that will do the job.

For the bigger family things we have a Ford SMax – which is really good but can't get 4 blokes and 4 bikes in with gear without it being a serious faff, I think I'm wanting to just put the bikes in complete and off we go. On the roof is fine but it does affect fuel economy – I'm kind of hankering for a road trip to South of France in a few years with the family so don't want bikes on roof for economy or restricted parking, etc.

Slightly strange request but I've got 8 months to sort something out and would like some pointers to get me started…

Cheers.

Get a towbar & trailer for the S-Max.

Convert a Toyota HiAce?

Did think of the towbar for the S-Max – but I'm not sure how comfy that would be for sleeping in…anyone done that?

Plenty of room in the SMax for 4 and kit so not sure the trailer could be needed, but the towbar could be used to mount the bikes (which would help improve the MPG).

Hmmm, might see what the chances of getting the wife to agree a swap!

Anything else?

I've driven a Hiace a few times in the past and didn't find it that comfy (admittedly last one I drove was about 8 years ago)…

I'd think that you will struggle to find something that you can carry all that stuff around in & still sleep in (even if you don't have the stuff in it while sleeping).

My first thought was a one of the Transporters/Transits with a twin cab & bit less storage space – but you won't be able to sleep in one.
A friend is currently doing up an LDV van into a motorhome, but when all the comforts are in place there won't be much room for storing bikes & stuff.

Hmmm, that was my thinking as well, which is why I'm lost. I did see an ad on Autotrader for the VW van (previously owned by AA I think) and the owner had it sorted to be totally empty, row of seat with storage behind or a camper thing – that appealed to me, but didn't seem to set me on fire…hence the question I guess…thanks for the input though.

I just got a new shape berlingo and it's an ace biking vehicle, better than the old ones as they drive a lot better, are a bit bigger and the seats come out.

3 bikes and 3 people, no wheels have to come off and you just wheel the bikes in longways. Loads of room for kit.

4 + 4 means wheels off, and bikes in the boot. If you want to do 4+ 4 bikes complete, you'll need at least a LWB transporter. In one of them bikes will go longways behind the rear row of seats. If you've got the cash they do fast versions too.

I've had a number of vans over the last few years so here's my 2p's worth.

Economy – Best I've ever had was 40mpg out of a 2.5 VW transporter T5 and most people can't believe I managed that. For vans of this size budget on 35mpg (more like 30 for a vito). Larger vans (e.g. sprinter, iveco) 30 tops. Petrol vans are very rare to find so expect a diesel or very poor economy if you do find a petrol. If you want some oomph then you'll need to make sure you get the higher output vehicles from various ranges and look into having a remap done on the engine.

Cheap to run – Not a problem with anyhting I've had service intervals have been 12-22k depending on the van. Most modern (04 on ish) vans run about 15-18k.

If you want 4 people you're looking at transit/transporter size to retain any storage room and a crew cab version at that. Look for vw Kombi or merc dualiner vans which will have been factory converted. It's possible to get a van you buy fitted with seats etc budget about £1k for rear seats and windows.

From everything you've said I'd go for a VW t5 2.5 130bhp transporter kombi probably lwb to give you more bike room if inside is important, failing that swb, tow bar and one of these http://www.aistoncycleracks.co.uk

I drive an 05 Berlingo, and when the time comes to replace it I'm looking at a new model Kangoo, which isn't available in the UK just yet. The new Berlingo is a bit low to the ground for my liking and I want a bit of clearance for snow/bumpy stuff.

Have to agree with steveh – VWT5 Transporter – all the latest mechanicals plus very versatile.
Not sure if they still do a Multivan variant – the old T3 had 7 seats and the rear folded into a bed. You could also get them with a poptop which meant you did not develop a pronounced stoop!
There's also great forum for VW vans info and support if you do get one.(not the T4Forum)

Troutwrestler, the new berlingo XTR is raised slightly and has a sump guard too, for better off-roading powers. The FC and the like use them. I have a regular one however.

There's the van variant of the new kangoo that parks on my street sometimes, and I think i prefer the berlingo.

New kangoo failed the moose test. Think I would get the xtr berlingo. This is only one which comes with the 110bhp engine as well!

I have to choose a new comp car shortly and the berlingo is right at the top of the list.

db

i have a t5 transporter – ex aa but silver. 105bhp which is ok – i'd avoid the 85.
i really love it – 5 seats – great for camping – the missus loves it – kids love it!
just over 100,000 miles when I got it – no issues so far and just under 40mpg. pretty good i think.
they're more car like than a transit I think, not too wide.

Have to say, after posting this I was wondering what was going to get posted…Berlingo is still my prefered option (as although I fancy the ability to sleep in the vehicle – I've not had to yet so probably be few and far between times that I do. Going bigger than the Berlingo-type vehicle gives loads of room for carrying kit but also extra weight and size (so less fuel economy – and how often will I fill it to the gunnels?).

I'm still interested in trying to find a suitable vehicle but I suspect a T5-sized van is probably a bit too big for my day-to-day vehicle especially as the mileage is so insignificant (but I can't bike as work and child picking up are combined).

Berlingo I think is back in there – would have to be XTR variant as that has the 3 seats that are individually removable in the rear – which allows much more flexibility.

IA, being the anorak that I am, what spec did you go for and got any pics of it laden with biking gear?

t5 is basically the same length as my dad's mondeo estate – 10,20 mm in it. so it's smaller that you think.
it is nice to be able to wheel the bikes straight in.

Hey, two Bartons!

DB, i've got a 92hp HDI engined VTR. The rear seats split 2 and 1, which seems fine flexibility wise for me. IN terms of sleeping in one, I plan some sort of ghetto conversion myself for the occasional time I don't want to use a tent, but have you seen Amdro's stuff?

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=88499&id=49029340221

Here're a pic of mine with bikes in, before I lined it properly:

Not obvious from that pic, but all the wheels are on all the bikes, and the double seat's out the car. The 2 bikes on the left are BIG. I'm 6'4" so ride proper gates. That's a large Socom, and an XL trance (the socom's longer and taller bars than the trance, and most other bikes). The superlight's my SO's and smaller, but I had 3 big bikes in there just yesterday for the selkirk merida.

Oh, here's a pic of it lined with just the trance in:
http://lobster.selfip.org/stuff/17072009705.jpg

DB, is it you with pics of the crashed berlingo I saw on flickr when I was looking for pics of berlingos with bikes in a couple months ago?

Yes it was me…I also have a couple of shots with 2 bikes in it when we were in Spain (well not my Berlingo, that was scrapped but the hire one we had). Looking at those pics is appears that the new Berlingo is quite a bit longer than the previous version – which is ideal as my bikes would fit in but would have to go squint so I'd loose some space – could get 3 in and 3 bodies but it did mean a wheel was remove from the middle bike.

Aye, Berlingo is looking good…

Amdro make some good, true, 'multi-purpose vehicles'. The T5 conversion may be what you're after. check them out. http://www.amdro.co.uk

Taking the seat out gives a fair bit extra length, though the car is a bit longer and wider than an old one anyhow. The middle bike has the front wheel poking in the gap in the front seats a bit. If you don't take the seats out then the bikes have to wedge at an angle.

From your carron valley link, you're in scotland somewhere? I'm in Edinburgh and often to be found at various scottish MTB locations/events, so if you see a lanky fella with a red berlingo anywhere you're welcome to come and say hello and have a look at it, and any questions fire away.

"I suspect a T5-sized van is probably a bit too big for my day-to-day vehicle"
This was exactly my problem. My criteria were: smaller externally than my old mondeo (better round town), better engine/handling when loaded up, 2 + 2 bikes wheels on, 3+ 3 bikes front wheels off, 4+4 both wheels off. The berlingo met all these, and to my suprise did 3+3 wheels on easily (i only tried 2 bikes in it in the showroom 🙂 )

If you like the Berlingo then why not go a smidge bigger and get a Dispatch (or Scudo or Pug Expert depending which combination of engine, trim and wheelbase you want). Still small enough for daily use and fits into regular parking bays and most mulit-storeys.

We have a Dispatch combi as our only car and it is ace for what you describe. 6 full seats plus enormous bike room. Rubber wipe clean floors, huuuge tailgate to shelter under when camping or getting kitted up. +40mpg and 20,000 mile ish service intervals. Expect immediate offer of +20% off the list price – more if you haggle. If it is anything like the old model then will be very reliable (our previous one was 133,000 miles when a BMW wiped it out – they also behave quite well in a crash!).

Our new one is the cheapest 1.6 HDI (90hp). Performance is sufficient but not fast – felt VERY slow at first and needed 6000 miles to loosen up but now noticeably faster.

The Combis come registered as MPVs / Diesel cars so are not limited to lower A road and dual carriageway speeds of the vans / conversions. Think very carefully about conversions / insurance hassles / reduced van speed limits and safety of little sprogs in camper van bed-seats (been there before and factory built combi is much easier).

We looked at VW T5 and Caddy Life. Caddy is way overpriced and over trimmed for mtb use (light grey carpets ffs!) plus only 5 seats, narrow loadbay and subject to "VW tax" (minimal discounts and shoddy pompous dealers). T5 is great if you have the cash……

I can send you a few pics – have made a proper bulkhead grille and internal bike rack to keep kids and bikes safely apart. On countdown for a 3 week euro trip!

IA – id the driver asleep in that photo?

That Amdro thing looks like a cracking idea. I need to go and have a think…the size of the VW Transporter-type vehicle is appealing but I know it will be used only about 1% of the time so it will be a lot of space doing nothing…the Berlingo is certainly bigger than the first version and does seem to tick a large number of the boxes…

Wow thanks for the amdro links people – I love the bed in the boot option. I'm sold on getting a xtr citroen.

Sorry to hijack DB!

the other db

Mick_r – I'm interested in some pics…but the Dispatch seems to be rather large compared to the Berlingo – that looks van-sized like a Transit…

IA – depending on how my parenting 'classes' go, I might see you an a biking location but it's not likely to be soon – but with 8 months to go…loads of time.

No need to apologise for the hijack (hardly a hijack still on topic!)

Thanks for the info so far…

A Berlingo will do you very nicely indeed. However, if you want to go into continental Europe – VW Caddy or ever Transporter with a TDi engine would be perfect.

I still have my '05 2.0 HDi berlingo (90bhp version) – 64k miles and runs like a dream, bought it to replace the 1.6 (110bhp) petrol version I had – plan to keep it until it dies!

I have had a look at the new shape blingo and it looks better than the old one, and a wee bit longer. That said with 2 thirds of the rear bench folded I get 2 bikes with rear wheels on and upright with riding gear and camping kit no probs. Only issues I have ever had is a failed alternator at 40k (£300!) and the paint/body is a bit soft so suffers more from car park wounds (also think it is cause people think its a van and dont give a hoot!).

My bro got a stonking deal on a 1 year old passat estate, 170bhp TDi sport version with all the toys… £23k new… bought through a well know scottish dealer for less than £12k with only 9000 miles!!! cheaper than a new blingo. Its a tough choice, berlingo is more practical for bikes but think I would go for the VW – I would look at websites, seems like higher performance big cars, even oil burners are going for a song thanks to the credit crunch.

VW Caddy is about the same size as the Berlingo so what does it offer that the Berlingo doesn't? Other than a much higher price tag?

I looked at dispatches too, but you get good discounts on berlingos too, something like ~25% off mine with scrappage/bit of a haggle. So dispatches etc. are still a fair bit more. And at the end of the day, I can easily wheel 2 bikes into my berlingo, plus a ton of stuff, and more space would be overkill.

Caddy's were out my price range (by quite a way), though the caddy maxi life (car like version) is about a foot longer than a berlingo, so a fair bit more space. Not seen a caddy with a tailgate either, which is great for hiding from the rain loading/changing.

Vauxhall combo crew cabs are also similar, but a bit more van, less car. And no euro ncap tests for them, which is a bit off putting.

What about the LWB Transit Connect(crew cab type thing)? Never seen one opened up, but they look pretty practical?

I looked into connects too, seem a good option, bit bigger than a berlingo, caddy maxi size. Downsides are cost, and a bit thirsty apparently. More van than car too, if it matters.

TBH most outprices a berlingo. You can get a brand new base spec petrol one for £8k. And that's pretty damn cheap.

We were very tempted by Connect Crewvan (also Tourneo option if you want more trim). Big plus for us was a big sliding mesh bulkhead behind the back seats that could be slid forward if you folded up the rear seat. Downsides were no tailgate with long wheelbase / hi roof, rear windows didn't open (bit cruel for the kids on hot days) and 14 week delivery time. Bikes fitted widthways (just) with the front wheel out and bars and fork spun 180 degrees (not possible if you run triple clamp forks!).

Dispatch is big compared to Berlingo but not as bulky or van like as a Transit. We found the new Berlingo had too much trim in the back that robbed loadspace (loadspace width is everything if you want to carry 4 people and bikes).

I like the Amdro stuff but still not sure I want my kids travelling next to wooden boxes that can tumble around in a crash. The Reimo bed-seat is strong and safe (and about £1000) but still critical that it is installed correctly. I'd be asking lots of probing questions about type approval test results and evidence of under floor strengthening (but then I have a seat belt anchorage test rig at work so sometimes see scary things….)

"We found the new Berlingo had too much trim in the back that robbed loadspace (loadspace width is everything if you want to carry 4 people and bikes)."

This is a valid point. To do 4 + 4 in a new berlingo, you need to leave the seatposts IN the bikes, and put them across the boot upside down. This means the longest part of the bike (dropouts to mech) is at the widest part of the vehicle (by the windows).