obviously 😉

RichPenny, it’s an analogy. I was trying to think of something where there’s a big difference between what different cultures find acceptable. That’s the best I could come up with.

As for the barbed comment, don’t you think it’s a remarkable coincidence that most people living in the UK share the established view on eating cows, cats, pigs and dogs, whereas people living in other cultures have a different view ?

so are vegetarians allowed to wear mole skin trousers?

you misunderstood my comment about vegetarians.

I thought perhaps I did and I didn’t. Your post read as though you thought “vegetarians = bastards” and then did a bit of backpedalling in your subsequent explanation just in case. It wasn’t clear though so I’ll hold my hand up if that was just a badly written post and not what you meant, fair do’s.

I mean this to apply only to vegetarians who give me grief

Seriously, does that happen a lot? If it does, what you’ve got there isn’t a vegetarian problem, it’s an arsehole problem.

I don’t think vegetarians… have any right to moralise… Which essentially you have already agreed with

Absolutely, no arguments here.

Well, no, it’s not. It’s still a choice of course.

At it’s simplest level, yes.

I choose to ride a mountain bike.
If other people choose to ride a road bike or play cricket, it really doesn’t make much difference to me.

I choose not to eat animals, drop litter, or keep slaves.
I’d prefer it if other people didn’t either.

supertramp – Member

so are vegetarians allowed to wear mole skin trousers?

I like you, you’re funny.

Mum, can we keep him?

Seriously, does that happen a lot? If it does, what you’ve got there isn’t a vegetarian problem, it’s an arsehole problem.

No, actually it hasn’t happened for about 6 months.

There may have been a bit of this in my post…
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b22foyWvuUU[/video]

I find this very funny, so far eating meat has been compared to:

Dropping litter
keeping slaves
Marital rape

have I missed any out? 😆

It’s a bit more than just a simple choice though, isn’t it ?
To go back to my earlier analogy, if you moved to a country where rape in marriage was commonplace, would you join in with the local customs or become a preachy women’s rights activist and try to persuade them it’s not a very nice thing to do ?

That’s not an analogy, that’s a logical fallacy. Specifically it is a straw man argument, and it show little more than the weakness of your argument.

This argument gets so emotive…is this thread the ethical equivalent of trolling?

I personally feel that by recognising 2 options which satisfy the same end, but recognising that one is less destructive I am obliged ethically not to be destructive.

I try and follow: do unto others as you would have done unto you (it’s a classic) and you are free to do whatever you want to do, as long as it doesn’t impair someone (or something) else’s ability to do the same. There are obviously many ways to pedantically pick at this…as with any other belief system.

It seems a bit rude to me to choose something to be dead because I’m a bit peckish. As an omnivore I don’t need too, it’s just a choice.

Environmentally I feel that the farming of animals is both inefficient and damaging. Whether it’s flattening rainforest to grow cattle feed or simply rearing animals on land which could produce food/fuel crops, we could use it for better means.

The real issue extends beyond what goes in your mouth, that’s just the tip of the iceberg (lettuce).

Went to the doctors the other day. I had a lettuce stuck up my bum.

I bent over as instructed, the doctor peered in and said “I can see your problem but I think it’s just the tip of the iceberg”

Went to the doctors the other day. I had a lettuce stuck up my bum.

The doctor said, “I see the problem, you’re not eating properly.”

I choose to ride a mountain bike.
If other people choose to ride a road bike or play cricket, it really doesn’t make much difference to me.

I choose not to eat animals, drop litter, or keep slaves.
I’d prefer it if other people didn’t either.

Oh, I see, you’re one of ‘those’ people who thinks they’re better than everybody else because you believe not eating meat is somehow morally superior.

*feeling a strong urge to start trail questing whilst consuming large quantities of meat*

I am veggie (lacto-ovo so I eat dairy but not fish) because my mum was not the greatest of cooks, was not a great meat eater, read about the squalid conditions and inhuman ways some animals are treated and I love animals (except the cats that crap in our garden but that is another post). As most people say in this thread it is a choice, MrPP eats meat and I love cooking whether it is veggie or meat – he just has to taste it! We do buy free range meat from the butchers which I think makes a difference.
I am not one of those that preach and I hate it when people ask why I wear leather shoes, I usually respond with I use to buy non-leather shoes but I feet really stank after wearing them.
The reason why most people do not like veggie food is because it is suppose to look and taste like meat. If you want to try veggie recipes get a cook book like ‘Food for Thought’ or ‘Cranks’
After 22 years of being veggie I still miss jellied sweets (eg harribo although they do a veggie version), fish (&chips) bacon and roast chicken.

I’m returning to this thread because I want to clarify one point I made earlier.

Fish.

The OH eats Fish only when I cook it, for me I eat it twice a week, she however chooses to only eat it about once a month max.
Does that make her a “true” Veggie or not? I’m not so sure she really cares, she’s long since given up the argument.

bikebouy, no surely if you eat meat once or 100 times you can’t be classed as a veggie 🙂 fish flesh is still meat.

Oh, I see, you’re one of ‘those’ people who thinks they’re better than everybody else because you believe not eating meat is somehow morally superior.

Can you argue the case that he isn’t morally superior in this specific case though? I doubt it…

I have not read the whole thread but…….

On the ethics – there area few issues
1) meat = animals suffering / being killed – this is an absolute and can only be satisfied by being strict vegan.
2) farming for meat uses an unjustifiably large amount of resources. It takes many kg of veg matter to make 1kg of meat. On this there can be compromise – I eat meat as an occasional treat – so the extra resources I consume over a vegetarian is a minimal amount

Not sure I buy the hypocritical angle so much either. An analogy ( 😀 ) would be with coal. Digging it out of the ground and burning it is a dirty, smelly and dangerous process and one I wouldn’t do, yet I’ll happily use electricity. I think that makes me sensible rather than hypocritical.

I guess there’s a finer line where people claim to love animals and also eat them 🙂 Is it possible to do both, I wonder?

Graham, I believe people can subscribe to cultural norms and have thought things through. Most just decide that animals are not subject to the same rights as humans, I can appreciate that you think differently though.

MidlandTrailquestsGraham – where do you actually live? Is it the midlands? Or the middle ages? Perhaps both?

So… the brutal, uncivilised carnivores you know, love nothing more than to feast on freshly, inhumanely slaughtered fwuffy things, served to them by their evil dehumanised slaves, before retiring to rape their wives, while liberally distributing detritus from their bedroom windows?

Binners – you could rape the livestock and eat the wife?

Personally I don’t see anything imoral in eating animals.

RichPenny – Member

Not sure I buy the hypocritical angle so much either. An analogy would be with coal. Digging it out of the ground and burning it is a dirty, smelly and dangerous process and one I wouldn’t do, yet I’ll happily use electricity. I think that makes me sensible rather than hypocritical.

I guess there’s a finer line where people claim to love animals and also eat them Is it possible to do both, I wonder?

Two excellent points, I suppose using petrol comes in there somewhere!

As for loving animals and eating them, how about the cat owning vegetarians? do they feed their cats on vegetables or rabbit meat cat food and tuna chunks? all of the meat content farmed in the same inhumane ways. Do they find the cats cruel when they kill birds and mice (despite them not being hungry or needing to)? But it is in their nature they are cats, well we are human beings, the most successful hunters on the planet!

But then life is full of contradiction and compromise!

Went to the doctors the other day. I had a lettuce stuck up my bum.

The doctor said, “I see the problem, you’re not eating properly.”

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Like I say..

SHE’s given up on the argument because it causes SO much grief man.

2) farming for meat uses an unjustifiably large amount of resources. It takes many kg of veg matter to make 1kg of meat.

Did anyone read the thing about growing meat the other day? Interesting article, will try to dig it out. Sounds a bit creepy, but far more efficient, and no inhumane animal farming/killing.

2) farming for meat uses an unjustifiably large amount of resources. It takes many kg of veg matter to make 1kg of meat.

Just because you think it’s unjustifiable doesn’t mean everyone else is supposed to agree.

I happen to think it is justified because all the resulting juicy steaks are well worth sacrificing a load of rabbit food for.

joao – but is it worth people to starving for? is it worth the destruction of virgin forest?

I’m going to start eating more rabbit.

Win, win.

Do you veggies/vegans who participate in alcoholic beverages ensure that your pint/glass of wine/shot etc have all been produced without the addition of animal based products ? It would seem that not all producers declare this so do you actively avoid those or is it a case of ignorance is bliss ?

Who’s destroying virgins in forests? That sounds a bit wrong

100% Vegan

Animal Rights
Human Health
Human Rights
The Enviroment
Animal Wefare

You missed off sanctimony

You missed off ‘troll’.

(Holy thread resurrection!)

how about the cat owning vegetarians? do they feed their cats on vegetables or rabbit meat cat food and tuna chunks?

No. When I’ve had cats, they’ve been fed cat food.

It’s not comparable to humans though. Cats aren’t omnivores, they’re carnivores. It’s actually considered cruel to keep a cat on a vegetarian diet.

But then life is full of contradiction and compromise!

It’s only the same as going for a meal and having a veggieburger whilst my OH has a chickenburger. If I’m imposing my views and choices onto someone else (be that human or feline) then I’m “sanctimonious,” if I’m not then I’m hypocritical. We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

Sounds like you should just eat a nice big steak then.

A friend of mine once worked at a farm at the weekends and they had a disused grain silo that they were preparing for the harvest…trouble is it was full of mice.

Load of petrol and a match from the farmer…and no more mice.

Sounds like you should just eat a nice big steak then.

Load of petrol and a match from the farmer…and no more mice.

Did you eat them afterwards?

Not sure how pest control has any relevance on a discussion on diet?

Grill yourself a nice big juicy steak and as you sit down to eat it, put this on the stereo. And try enjoying it

Meat Is Murder