going back to tom1987’s second category – the lowest vaccination rates in this city are in some of the wealthiest neighborhoods – educated enough to look for stuff on Facebook, not educated enough to understand why it’s rubbish

dbcooper – Member
The plural of anecdote is anecdotes. It is not science.
POSTED 6 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

isn’t the plural anecdotae?

educated enough to look for stuff on Facebook, not educated enough to understand why it’s rubbish

“the one wise quote you should send to all your friends!”

I run research trials for “big Pharma”.

The issue here is whether parents (as an entire demographic) are adequately informed enough to make decisions about how their child is treated. In this case you have parents weighing up a perceived risk/benefit that they are just not equipped to understand. Imagining that every parent is going to invest the time to review all the available evidence in order to adequately understand is just deluded. Particularly when you are talking about population health vs personal risk.

Vaccines and Autism are two things that the general public just don’t understand. Add “statistics” and “Children” to that mix and play on peoples fears about some sort of conspiracy involving the government and pharma companies (probably lizards/Jimmy Saville as well)…. no wonder this has all got out of hand.

Personally, I think that what we are seeing is a correlation between when children receive their MMR, and when children tend to be diagnosed with Autism.

batfink – Member
Vaccines and Autism are two things that the general public just don’t understand. Add “statistics” and “Children” to that mix and play on peoples fears about some sort of conspiracy involving the government and pharma companies (probably lizards/Jimmy Saville as well)…. no wonder this has all got out of hand.

Cover-ups exist and have existed as long as there have been banks, governments, corporations and secret societies.

CDC whistleblower confesses to MMR vaccine research fraud in historic public statement

Cover-ups exist and have existed as long as there have been banks, governments, corporations and secret societies.

Having read the “article” in the link it doesn’t give us the data, put the data up for consideration or review. It’s also at odds with every other study into a link between MMR and Autism. If you look for a conspiracy you can find/invent one. As many have said causation and correlation are not the same thing, the onset or diagnosis of autism (which was something that would never have even be diagnosed in most cases 30 years ago) may correlate with the timing of vaccination. The prevalence of autism in a particular genetic/socioeconomic group may also be down to a huge range of other factors.

Cover-ups exist and have existed as long as there have been banks, governments, corporations and secret societies.
CDC whistleblower confesses to MMR vaccine research fraud in historic public statement

Errr….. I agree. But do you agree that not EVERYTHING is a cover up?

Here’s a picture of a cat doing a rubic’s cube that was also on the internet:

I love the irony that the website that you are linking to – claiming that regulators are misrepresenting the scientific data – is running an advert (directly under the headline) that says:

“1 fruit that kills diabetes! Prevent or reverse type 2 diabetes by eating this 1 food from the grocery store”

So…. your mother/father/child has type 2 diabetes – you see this “advertorial” on one of your favourite websites, with all sorts of compelling testimonials, links to other sources that say: “wow, this stuff is amazing!”, “I am cured!” and “don’t pollute your body with medicines, use this natural alternative!”.

So do you take your Mother/father/child off of their diabetes medication and give them some goji berries instead? This is essentially what this is about – just the other way around.

BTW: that fruit-based advert would be illegal in the UK – it’s making a medical claim that (I am assuming) the manufacturer does not have a licence/data to support.

That “CDC Whistleblower” stuff is an example of the utter claptrap that breaks my heart.

The irony of course is that Facebook provided a link to this site in the recommended links beneath when that link was shared:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/22/brian-hooker-proves-andrew-wakefield-wrong-about-vaccines-and-autism/

Of course, it is just one doctor’s counterpoint, but he raises some key points about statistical analysis. Yes, it’s not as easy to digest or sexy as “OMG Big Pharma conspiracy eats our babies”, but that is science for you.

Oh, and in some sort of perfect circle, I have seen this morning that the infographic posted above has been making the rounds, and had been dismissed as “oversimplified”.

Very interesting gents but… geniune question.

Why did Wakefield publish?

Someone has said becuase he was paid to do so.

So who paid him and why ?

Why did Wakefield publish?

Money, fame, popularity, more research funding, notoriety?

According to the paragon of truth that is wikipedia
” he planned a rival vaccine and products (such as a diagnostic kit based on his theory) that could have made his fortune.”
ie he made patent submissions for the above.

So who paid him and why ?

http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

According to this – you did, via the legal aid system…

It’s a good read, but in a nutshell, he was paid to produce evidence linking MMR to bowel illness and autism in order to support compensation claims against the NHS/vaccine manufacturers.

I love the irony that the website that you are linking to – claiming that regulators are misrepresenting the scientific data – is running an advert (directly under the headline) that says:

“1 fruit that kills diabetes! Prevent or reverse type 2 diabetes by eating this 1 food from the grocery store”

Ah that’ll be Natural News then – the site that not very long ago published a piece about how to make your own homeopathic Ebola treatment by taking blood and saliva from Ebola victims!

Yep, they seem credible. 😯

“Here’s a picture of a cat doing a rubic’s cube that was also on the internet:”

the picture is missing – IT’S A COVER UP

BTW smithw6079 is a lizard botherer

and if you want to start making links make sure you have checked everything
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-10/risk-of-autism-twice-as-high-if-mothers-have-pre-eclampsia-duri/5957472

https://www.gov.uk/vaccine…/overview

So the government must just be pandering to the whimsical nature of conspiracy theory ?

linky no worky?

Maybe you mean this? https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment

Seems like a good idea, I wonder how much the unvaccinated damage payments would be?

Quick move house they are on to you and have deleted your link

Have you see enemy of the state?

That’s you that is

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4356027.stm

Do vaccines really work?

Is Bill Gates facing a lawsuit for illegal vaccine testing in India?

Did the HPV vaccine damge these young women?

Why can’t US citizens sue the drug companies for vaccine damage?

Again, Do vaccines work

Why is a doctor questioning the safety of vaccines?

Just a few questions I have about the safety of vaccines. I’m not some loon or ‘halfwit. I’m just a parent trying to get the full picture and the truth. Which often leaves me feeling stuck between a rock and hard place.

OK vaccines do work, there may be side effects but compared to a pandemic it’s not that bad. Not to do sweeping generalisations but research for is based in research and against anecdotal.

I’m not some loon

FTFY

It just goes to show that the problems people have with making an informed choice. It depends on how discriminating you are with your sources of information…..

Some people seem prepared to accept any old…. information… as long as it appears on the internet.

I’m just a parent trying to get the full picture and the truth. Which often leaves me feeling stuck between a rock and hard place.

Good analogy. Let’s imagine the “hard place” is science, let’s imagine it’s a concrete floor, the the weight of evidence behind it is the whole world. Then let’s imagine the “rock” is the weight of evidence against the efficacy of vaccines, proportionately sized. So you’re standing on a concrete floor with a grain of sand in your hair. Now brush off the grain of sand, go home, get your kids and get them vaccinated, so they they and those around them aren’t at risk of preventable infectious disease.

as they say the answer is this

Yes they work and whilst they have some minor risks associated them they are less than the risks and consequences of catching the disease.

re your links
Do vaccines work
Laughable use of emottive language and cherry picking of facts

the pro-vaccine line

any deviation from the standard vaccine protocol, which is basically to take whatever the government says is good for you, becomes the automatic scapegoat when an outbreak occurs

If you want to know if vacination works google the eradicated diseases of rinderfest or smallpox 🙄

Bill gates comes from Vactruth.com

Jeffry was a rescue swimmer in the United States Navy and held a Top Secret clearance. In 2000, he was honorably discharged from the Navy and a year later started his family. In 2001 his first son, Brandon, was born. Twenty one vaccines later, his son stopped reaching his developmental milestones.

After extensively researching the vaccine literature, he discovered vaccine injuries happen frequently and parents are often feared into getting their child vaccinated.
If you want to get medical views from this fella then dont let me stop you.

third one parents talking about ill kids I struggle with long sentences

If you search the internet you will fin dill informed folk clutching at straws to generate and get information to support their biases

you are in danger of becoming one of them if you are not already there

Nothing is safe but the best way to protect your kids , whilst not infallible, is to vaccinate

jimoiseau – Member
I’m just a parent trying to get the full picture and the truth. Which often leaves me feeling stuck between a rock and hard place.
Good analogy. Let’s imagine the “hard place” is science, let’s imagine it’s a concrete floor, the the weight of evidence behind it is the whole world. Then let’s imagine the “rock” is the weight of evidence against the efficacy of vaccines, proportionately sized. So you’re standing on a concrete floor with a grain of sand in your hair. Now brush off the grain of sand, go home, get your kids and get them vaccinated, so they they and those around them aren’t at risk of preventable infectious disease.

^^^^
Likey

“I’m just a parent trying to get the full picture and the truth” in 1980 2.6 million deaths from measles . Polio was a big issue once . Vaccines work . Unvaccinated children are at risk and put others at risk.
Notice the sources of your links and follow them up they are not that credible . Vaccines like many things can have very rare side effects . The diseases against which we vaccinate have very real life changing or ending symptoms .

Funny how the anti-vacc lot never seem interested in the horrific side effects inherent in not vaccinating, isn’t it.

I’m just a parent trying to get the full picture and the truth.

Perfectly understandable. Read back, I answered that question two pages ago.

After extensively researching the vaccine literature, he discovered vaccine injuries happen frequently

That’s a pretty vague word right there. “frequently”

The key question is how does that frequency of vaccine injury compare to the frequency of “unvaccinated injury”?

The handy infographic suggested there were 2.6 MILLION deaths from measles as recently as 1980. That’s pretty damn frequent!

Nobody seems bothered about strapping the kids in the car seat or going on a plane. “Car injuries and Plane injuries frequently happen.”

This thread and it’s topic is repeated countless times on the web. In many cases the the pro vac crew resort to aggression and ridicule towards anyone that dares to question the issue. The whole debate seems very black and white, yet millions of people sit in the grey area, wanting balanced facts.

Surely someone (with no links to government and or drug companies) should conduct an impartial balanced study. If not, does it not suggest the concerns of many people are considered not be important or relevant in the matter of everyone’s health and wellbeing.

In the name of science let’s revisit this thread in 20 years and compare the lives and health of those vaccinated an unvaccinated. I’m up for it.

Or we could just do that now. I wonder how many of these people were vaccinated?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22277186
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-23244628

Plenty of independent research already mentioned on this thread. Interestingly the most famous study to find a link did have funding from vested interests.

The balanced facts are readily available – those websites suggesting otherwise aren’t the most sensible (I’m searching for a term which you won’t consider aggression and ridicule – there’s certainly very little of that on this thread, just lots of attempts at rational explanation).

Putting my money where my mouth is,

I’ve just had a vaccination at lunchtime.

</aside>

Sorry cougar. The vaccine for stupidity is wholly unproven 😛

Putting my money where my mouth is,

I’ve just had a vaccination at lunchtime.

</aside>CIA?

Just as balance to all the alarmist websites giving details of things people think were due to them receiving vaccinations:

http://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/stories

Of course that site might also be biased, but the organisations behind it don’t appear to have direct links to government or drugs companies
http://oxfordbrc.nihr.ac.uk/
http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/

In the name of science let’s revisit this thread in 20 years and compare the lives and health of those vaccinated an unvaccinated. I’m up for it.

The thing is, pretty much all medical procedures involve some degree of risk and side-effect, however slight it might be.

So on an individual level it might conceivably be safer to avoid the (very minor) risk of vaccines because chances are you’ll still benefit from herd immunity by being surrounded by people who have been vaccinated.

Of course that is incredibly selfish and all falls apart if more than a few percent of people refuse vaccination, which is why anti-vaccination movements are so worrying.

Sorry cougar. The vaccine for stupidity is wholly unproven

Get out. (-: