Unsavoury incident (gun and garrote content)

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Unsavoury incident (gun and garrote content)

76 posts & 40 voices | Started 10 months ago by wynne | Latest reply from myheadsashed

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ilovemygears - Member

Also, technically its not your land either, it all belongs to the Crown. You just happen to possess the right to look after it for free; the freehold deeds.

yes and you only have the right to look after the top bit you only own the first 5 foot after that depth the soil belongs to some one else (mineral rights).
When some **** dog rips apart some calf you spent untold hours keeping alive, suddenly trespassers become more annoying, shooting at trespassers is wrong, shooting there dogs is right (if there worrying, chasing riping apart animals at the time) Also a large number of people killed on farms are trespassing there.

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

Again agreed, obviously. Where I disagree with you is when you seem to assume that people with land are somehow more 'civilised' than those less fortunate. More to lose maybe, better manners, probably. But strip away the thin veneer of socialisation and the same animal is beneath. There are eejits, numpties and downright bad eggs in ALL strata of society, regardless of wealth or favour.

(I also like to hope there's plenty of decent people at all levels of society, although sometimes I do wonder)

Posted 10 months ago #
ilovemygears - Member

Where I disagree with you is when you seem to assume that people with land are somehow more 'civilised' than those less fortunate

when did i say that?

Posted 10 months ago #
nickf - Member

Also a large number of people killed on farms are trespassing there.

How many people are killed whilst trespassing on farms? If it's more than one or two a year I'd be very surprised.

Posted 10 months ago #
ilovemygears - Member

How many people are killed whilst trespassing on farms? If it's more than one or two a year I'd be very surprised.

http://www.bmj.com/content/305/6844/23.full.pdf

two people have died on our farm in the last 10 years both of them shouldn't have been there , PRO TIP dont go climbing round bales there round and can roll, and weigh 1000kg.

Posted 10 months ago #
hora - Member

Love it when a farmer empties a huge amount of slurry in a commonly used gate/access through his farm yard.

It used to happen on a farm in the Peaks (Cant remember its named now).

Posted 10 months ago #
McHamish - Member

Also a large number of people killed on farms are trespassing there.

Gamekeepers and landowners do not shoot people, and they have absolutely no right to do so. They can shoot your dog if it's worrying animals as mentioned above.

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

ILMG, you said;
and dont act like lower class people

This is what I was referring to. If I misunderstood your meaning, then I am, of course, very sorry.

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

Gamekeepers and landowners do not shoot people,

They both do and have done, on occasion. The fact that they have no right to is not in dispute.

Posted 10 months ago #
takisawa2 - Member

I cant believe that people think being threatened by three blokes with a gun is worthy of asking if the plods might be interested in.

Perhaps the streets of Kent are awash with gun toting gangsters, & this is quite the norm down there.

Posted 10 months ago #
McHamish - Member

They both do and have done, on occasion.

Hardly ever.

And I suspect they wish they hadn't if they didn't have justification due to the legal ramifications.

Shooting a trespasser for merely trespassing is murder or attempted murder.

Shooting a poacher in self defense is not, although the police would still investigate it.

Posted 10 months ago #
5thElefant - Member

They both do and have done, on occasion. The fact that they have no right to is not in dispute.

I can't remember a single case. I don't suppose you have a link do you (post 1900)?

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

Linky linky

A really quick google found these. I'm obviously not saying that gamekeepers and landowners are better or worse than anyone else, just that they are human and in possession of firearms, that's all.

(and I'm not arguing for or against gun ownership, for the record)

Posted 10 months ago #
bent_udder - Member

Guns don't kill people: rappers do.

OP - did you get the license plate of the 4x4?

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

...I saw it on a documentary, on BBC 2...

Posted 10 months ago #
McHamish - Member

A really quick google found these.

Did you read it?

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

Of course I did. In amongst the pleasant activities such as poisoning various wildlife, shooting birds of prey and having lax respect for ammunition, there is a chap who shot someone for trying to pinch his car (harsh, but I can sympathise) drink drivers etc. My point is, human, like the rest of us. (and in possession of firearms). Would you like to be spoonfed more data? Or shall we accept that landowners/gamekeepers et al are no better (or worse) than the rest of us?

Posted 10 months ago #
5thElefant - Member

Of course I did. In amongst the pleasant activities such as poisoning various wildlife, shooting birds of prey and having lax respect for ammunition, there is a chap who shot someone for trying to pinch his car (harsh, but I can sympathise) drink drivers etc. My point is, human, like the rest of us. (and in possession of firearms). Would you like to be spoonfed more data? Or shall we accept that landowners/gamekeepers et al are no better (or worse) than the rest of us?

So you've downgraded landowners shoot people to landowners are no better (or worse) than the rest of us?

Yeah. I see your point entirely now.

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

So you've downgraded landowners shoot people to landowners are no better (or worse) than the rest of us?
Yeah. I see your point entirely now.

My point, or issue has always been with the implication made by ILMG that landowners (someone else brought gamekeepers into the equation) are somehow better than the rest of us. The point I have been trying to make is that they are no better or worse than anyone else, that's all.

Posted 10 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

The Home Office have long admitted that Firearms owners are more law abiding than the general population, since any minor transgression can lead to the loss of their sport and/or livelihood.

Drink driving - licence gone, domestic violence - licence gone, drunk and disorderly -licence gone, common assault - licence gone

Think about if driving licences were scrutinised to that extent!

Posted 10 months ago #
McHamish - Member

I would like to be spoonfed more data please.

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

I can completely see the argument that (legal) firearms owners are more law abiding than average, for the reasons you state as well as the fact that you are checked out before being given a licence. Is there any documented evidence? (sorry mcHamish, my turn for spoon-feeding now, you'll have to use your own google)

BTW McHamish, I'm not actually quite sure what we disagree on?

Posted 10 months ago #
McHamish - Member

My only point was that I don't think the frequency in which landowners shoot people are as high as has been implied.

I'm not convinced that the people in the OP were gamekeepers or landowners, I've never seen a gamekeeper drive a big silver anything...mostly beaten up land rovers or a pick-up with a covered cage on the back for his dogs. Although I moved to the big smoke 10 years ago so things might have changed in the sticks.

Posted 10 months ago #
ilovemygears - Member

v8ninety - Member
Gamekeepers and landowners do not shoot people,
They both do and have done, on occasion. The fact that they have no right to is not in dispute.

believe me if you did you would lose ur friends' in the shooting community, they dont like nut jobs.

Posted 10 months ago #
ilovemygears - Member

I'm not convinced that the people in the OP were gamekeepers or landowners, I've never seen a gamekeeper drive a big silver anything...mostly beaten up land rovers or a pick-up with a covered cage on the back for his dogs. Although I moved to the big smoke 10 years ago so things might have changed in the sticks.

if it is big its always green

Posted 10 months ago #
v8ninety - Member

My only point was that I don't think the frequency in which landowners shoot people are as high as has been implied.

Didn't think that it was implied, other than people with guns tend to shoot people more often than people without guns, obviously. If I did imply that, then I apologise, it was not my intention.

believe me if you did you would lose ur friends' in the shooting community, they dont like nut jobs.

And hopefully also be in prison, able to make a whole new set of less fussy friends? Lol.

Posted 10 months ago #
aracer - Member

Totally irrelevant to the rest of the thread, but if they put wires across the track, how are they going to get their landrover down it?

Posted 10 months ago #
cruzheckler - Member

Wynne i can only assumeyou are trolling? This happened yesterday and you are asking today? WTF is 999 for?

You should have been diallinga s soon as they were out of sight!!

Posted 10 months ago #
ilovemygears - Member

the only experience ive ever had with people actually using guns for the wrong thing was when my dads friend was shot by a poacher, they had got him done several times and the police took away his guns, so he got one of a mate and killed my dads friend on his door step. was really sad

Posted 10 months ago #
andrewy - Member

OP please keep us posted on this. I've ridden down that track countless times over the last 20 years or so, and always assumed it was a right of way (white road). Never had any trouble either mind but this is a worry.

Posted 10 months ago #
McHamish - Member

Out of interest, was this late in the evening?

Poachers will often drive while hunting deer at night...they wait for a deer and then stick on the main beam on the headlights. The deer will stand there transfixed waiting for the poacher to shoot it.

Posted 10 months ago #
coffeeking - Member

I can't remember a single case. I don't suppose you have a link do you (post 1900)?

As kids we were shot at (and hit) by a farmer with a shotgun, while crossing his fields as a short cut home from school. We were being careful to avoid the crops and walking around the edge but he didn't care much. Friend had to pick lead out of his arse, but no-one went to the police as we knew we were not meant to be there and would have got a bigger kicking from parents if they found out!

Posted 10 months ago #
timc - Member

id say go for another ride up there

Posted 10 months ago #
wynne - Member

No, I'm no troll. All reported now.

I am surprised that it's caused such heated discussion. I will keep yo posted when I hear anything back from the council or the police.

A while ago I did a few years of anthropolgy fieldwork which has maybe given me a more relaxed attitude to people waving guns around. I've also had some extremely poor responses from the police when reporting cycling related incidents. In hindsight you're absolutely right, I should have reported it immediately.

Posted 10 months ago #
theotherjonv - Member

http://www.bmj.com/content/305/6844/23.full.pdf

Have to say after reading the summary of that report, farms seem a darn sight more dangerous for children of farm workers doing daft stuff than for people trespassing on farms.

"Fell fell from moving tractor - possibly trying to urinate through door. crushed by harrow"

Posted 10 months ago #