I’m currently contemplating buying some kind of cheap runabout to run into the ground. Logic tells me that there’s no such thing as an inherently unreliable brand these days, but I still can’t help thinking. Certain models might have faults, but I think if buying second hand the reliability of the car is more likely to be good or bad due to treatment by the previous owner. Lack of servicing/abuse etc etc.

Saying that some brands still seem to have negative stigma attached to them, especially if you speak to a previous owner who had a bad experience with them x amount of years ago.

Thoughts?

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100

Anything french
Old Alfas

Vauxhall, specifically Corsa. It’s been the most unreliable car i’ve ever known.

Liftman – Member

Anything french
Old Alfas

Historically speaking yes. That’s an example of what I mean. But if I bought a 5 year old Alfa tomorrow is it really going to be that bad?

And whilst I’ve never really loved any of the french cars that I’ve owned or known I think it’s worth mentioning that my 306 D-Turbo which I bought for £600 quid ran flawlessly for 3 years until a drugged up housewife reversed a volvo into it and rendered it cat-c. My dad has had 3 Peugeot 406s and has put spaceship miles on them (300,000+) without much trouble.

It’s typically certain models that have one or more items or features that were poorly designed or made and cause trouble. For instance a certain type of oil pump was fitted to VW 2.0 TDIs between certain dates from a certain factory, and this would be almost guaranteed to fail after about 50k miles. So Passats gained a reputation for bad reliability but it was in fact just this one particular item. Of course it’s no help to the new car buyer but after a few years the issue has been traced, a recall issued and you can look up if any particular car is affected via the VIN.

But then again there are traditional issues with certain makes – like Peugot having a rep for electrical issues. I did a quick poll in my office once, out of about 5 people with Peugots ALL of them had had electrical issues of varying severity. So how this is possible in this day and age I don’t know.

molgrips – Member
For instance a certain type of oil pump was fitted to VW 2.0 TDIs between certain dates from a certain factory, and this would be almost guaranteed to fail after about 50k miles. So Passats gained a reputation for bad reliability but it was in fact just this one particular item. Of course it’s no help to the new car buyer but after a few years the issue has been traced, a recall issued and you can look up if any particular car is affected via the VIN.

I’ve heard about this. It affected a lot of VAG cars with the 2.0tdi didn’t it?

jota180 – Member

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100

Is that chart adjusted in terms of terms of commonality? I noticed the Mazda MX-5 and Honda S2000 quite high there, but surely there’s only a handful of those in the UK compared to something like a Focus or a Corsa?
There’s also a good chance they won’t be daily drivers.

jimjam – Member

Historically speaking yes. That’s an example of what I mean. But if I bought a 5 year old Alfa tomorrow is it really going to be that bad?

Friend at work has a 59 plate 159 Sportwagon. So far this year it has needed a new power steering pump, a replacement light cluster and just this morning the startermotor caught fire…

Had a Peugeot. Nightmare. Never again.

Dunno how many. It was a fairly modest fraction of VW’s output and it wasn’t for long – but of course, pretty high profile when it started happening as it was more or less inevitable if you had that pump and it resulted in a destroyed engine in seconds.

There was a recall, my car had it. Just for the record, it’s not an issue for buyers now because any affected cars have almost certainly either been fixed under recall or exploded long ago.

The other issue with that engine was the injectors – the Siemens made ones (not sure the proportion) could randomly fail. At first VW denied it was an issue and there was a pretty big owners campaign in the US I think to force VW to acknowledge it and do a recall. They eventually did in about 2010 or so, which was 4 years after the issue appeared. I got a nice new set of injectors at 90k for free 🙂

Seems like these two pretty big issues harmed VW’s image hugely, but really it was just two slip-ups – one wasn’t even VW’s fault ultimately. The oil pump was one tiny bushing or something in the whole car.. but it’s enough.

jimjam – Member
Historically speaking yes. That’s an example of what I mean. But if I bought a 5 year old Alfa tomorrow is it really going to be that bad?

My mum had an Alfa Spider, new in 2012. She decided to get rid after only 8 months due to needing the turbo replaced twice, the instrument pack cluster going mental and something going wrong with the electric roof.
She swapped for a Merc SLK and apart from servicing & some new tyres it hasn’t seen the inside of the dealer’s service department yet.

I think any car can be a Friday afternoon car.

I’ve had 4 French cheap cars(2 Citroen,Renault and Peugeot), all under £1000. Three were great one was woeful. The worst one was my dad’s and serviced at a main dealers so no benefit there.

I’ve had two new cars an Insignia and a Golf. Both got at the same time and serviced at a main dealer. The Golf has been flawless and the Insignia was the most unreliable car I have ever had the misfortune to own.

In summary the only car I wouldn’t buy would be a Vauxhall.

As Molgrips says, it’s not about the make or even the model range but individual configurations can have the issues.

The easiest thing to do is find something you like the look/sound of then search t’interwebs for know issues – it’s surprising what you get back. A mate was looking at pick-ups some time back & chanced upon knackerednavarra.com which told him exactly which models to avoid.

I don’t think any brand is immune to having a ‘runt’ of the range – my VAG clients are all dealing with the same issues in their workshops ranging from oil pumps to DPF’s to engine failures – yet most folk would assume that this was far from the truth.

Reliability ‘charts’ like the one linked to above are pointless unless they show all models from all makes and take into account variables like mileage etc.

The SMMT figures are a good guide but you need someone inside the industry to get hold of them.

Leaving aside the issues that Molly correctly highlights some cars get a bad rep by bad owners.
My engineer mate calls me “mechanically sympathetic” in that I take very good care of all of my cars. I have had a number of Peugeots one of which did over 140k when I sold it. Every single item worked and it ran like a dream. I relied on it for work and brought every service marginally forward ensuring belts etc were replaced ahead of schedule. I only had one problem with all three and that was a gearbox issue from a breakage inside that cracked the housing leading to a £1100 bill. I have also had 2 Alfa’s which were both great given they were serviced and well looked after.

I know someone who bought a new Japanes car (with an excellent rep) and due to missed services and general neglect managed to create a number of issues for himself. Strangely enough he criticise this brand as unreliable!!

Had a Peugeot. Nightmare. Never again.

snap.
although unlikely to find a 306 as a cheap runaround these days.

1 safety recall (electrical), half the brakes replaced, 2 o2 sensors, and changed more lights than the blackpool tower… all before the 1st MOT at 3 years.
edit: and one sound system replaced under warranty, since the only thing that worked was the safe mode and the radio code unlocking.

sold it at 4yrs old with the engine warning light on, once more, yet again.

I think the thing is, when you buy 2nd hand, you’re ALWAYS going to have stuff to deal with. I’ve never bought new and just dealt with whatever needed fixing, unless it was seriously costly.
e.g.
1992 MR2 Turbo: over 2 years I needed to replace the turbo and both front calipers
1994 MR2 Turbo: 6 months, downpipe and injectors
1992 MX5: 2 year, replaced soft-top roof
1996 Mitsubishi Legnum VR4: 6 months, exhaust and auto-gearbox
1999 Jeep Cherokee: 1 year, water pump, radiator, clutch
1993 Mazda RX7: 18 months, injectors, fuel pump and fuel lines
1999 Renault Clio: 18 months, battery
1998 Lexus Is200: 2 months, coil pack, sunroof and keys reprogrammed
2006 Honda Civic: 1 year (so far), front suspension strut
2003 MG ZT-T: 3 months (so far), front droplinks, front ARBs, front wishbones, upper inlet manifold, instrument pack, thermostat, breather pipes

None have been particularly expensive (except for the VR4 gearbox @ £1000) as I’ve always tended to research common issues and budget for those things going wrong, plus I do 95% of my own spanner wrangling. Of the cars above I only gave up on the VR4 (it was a total money pit and thankfully I saw this before I spent any real cash on it) the Jeep (a coolant pipe split in the bowels of the engine which required 6 hours of removing parts to get to) and the Clio (immobiliser issue which could have ended up a £600 bill on a £300 car).
The key is to know what’s likely to go wrong, budget for that, and when something outside that goes wrong try not to get sucked into the “sunk cost” way of thinking.

my VAG clients are all dealing with the same issues in their workshops ranging from oil pumps to DPF’s to engine failures

But they don’t see cars that don’t break….?

Fiat Panda if you want it small.

Honda Jazz if you dont mind the image.

Honda Civic if you need to carry the grandchildren.

Honda Accord if you need to carry paying passengers.

Vauxhall, specifically Corsa. It’s been the most unreliable car i’ve ever known.

Case in point, I’ve had a few Vauxhalls and they’ve always been fine, my mum still misses her Corsa from years ago!

hora – Member

Fiat Panda if you want it small.

I’m gonna start another thread in a while about “what banger” etc Hora. Really like the look of the Panda but it might just be too small. Also, Fiat are one of “those” brands for sure.

So so simple- the 1.2 fire engine. I think the only weakpoint(?) really is the power steering pump. More than happy to be corrected but any niggles will be on cars c10yrs really on those?

Never had a problem with French cars
Citroen BX put 100,000 miles on it.
Peugeot 504 put 80,000 miles on it

The best was a Renault 4 F6 van did 120,000 miles in that as a courier and it never missed a beat.

Worst car was Ford Escort, just a miserable experience.

have a peugeot – have done for 6 years – its been great

have a 11 year old citroen – its also been great

would i buy a new one – would i ****. Quality control is very hit and miss i work on the bathtub model with pugs-if its made it to 5 years old with no issues itll probably be fine.

after my experiances with vw spares prices – ill never buy another – over priced is an understatement.

I’d be looking at Toyota Corolla’s or Honda Civic’s for a cheap reliable banger.

A friend’s dad is a mechanic in Estonia. The roads and weather are pretty rough on cars over there. The dad will only buy Toyotas as he reckons everything else doesn’t last well over there.

I agree with him to a point. My 2000 Corolla Estate 1.6 has been excellent until recently. It’s now showing its age (knackered engine, knackered brakes, fuel management system bust, wiper motors failed on rear) but for the first 15 years it hasn’t had a fault.

I wouldn’t buy a toyota made nowadays. But i would get one from 2000.

I’ve had 6 French cars and not a problem with any of them. I bought an ’06 Civic when that shape first came out and it was for ever having some sort of melt down.

My Father in law has a w reg Honda Civic Sport1.5. He has had it since new and does nothing to it, other than have it MOT’d and the odd oil change. It looks like a bag of spanners but it just runs and runs.
amazing how it keeps going, but he won’t change it until it dies (which will probably outlast him!)

old fiats . depends how old your car is going to be..most problems should be ironed out unless the seller is moving it on because of an inherent fault.
Never liked autos as they have gone wrong in some way or another.

Low tech is good in bangernomics …

Anything french

Currently on my 5th Citroen and still not had any problems with them except usual wear and tear stuff. VWs have been great as well although the paint and body work has been woeful.

So far, my wife’s Panda (08, 50k miles) has, in the past 2 years, needed the following:

HVAC unit repair (to avoid £2k bill) (£35 actuator and 3D printed titanium part)
Rear suspension dampners (both sides) £130
Rear suspension bump stop (NS) £30
Radiator + coolant hoses £90
Rear wheel bearings £100
Bonnet Badge £16
Headlight bulbs £25

By contrast, my BMW 330i (05, 86k miles) has required only a suspension droplink @ £15 and 2 litres of oil.

I’ve had six cars…

Two Alfas (146 and 147):
Electrical issues with both, the 147 was so messed up it kept telling me there was water in the diesel. It was a petrol car. I eventually rejected it

Two Subarus:
No problems whatsoever – amazingly reliable and did lots and lots of glorious miles. Might have ended up with some dents in the roof of the first one…

Two Skodas:
The Octavia started doing weird stuff at 180k and was never really fully resolved. Would stutter and blow horrible smoke occasionally when turning left. The Fabia VRS was amazing, though – no problems other than dodgy tyres fitted at factory, replaced by garage.

Rachel

Headlight bulbs £25

**** that reminds me- I need to replace the bulb in my headlight. 🙁

In My Subaru- on the nearside you need to remove the **** battery to get to it

**** that reminds me- I need to replace the bulb in my headlight.

In My Subaru- on the nearside you need to remove the **** battery to get to it is it not easier to remove the few bolts holding the headlight in?

Good point/I’ll see if thats easier… cheers

BTW- I’m referring to the 1.1/1.2 Panda- I know the 1.4 has a wierd/over firm rear set up.

I have owned three Citroens and two peugeots
Apart from the Citroen BX 16V, they were all no problem at all. The BX was a complete nightmare. Lovely car to drive when it was working, but in the 10 months or so I had it, it was actually working properly for about six weeks in total, and they weren’t consecutive!

In response to the OP I think the secret to Bangernomics is not to necessarily look at a particular model but instead to set a budget and do the best you can for that. I’m running a ’95 Diesel 205 that’s done 250 miles / week for the last four years (160k total) and goes like a rocket. My tip is to buy a non-common rail diesel and change the oil every 3k (only costs £25 for oil and a filter).
I’m looking at a bright pink fiesta next, great condition but no one wants it because of the colour (a few months without a clean should minimise this particular problem).

hora – Member
Good point/I’ll see if thats easier… cheers

BTW- I’m referring to the 1.1/1.2 Panda- I know the 1.4 has a wierd/over firm rear set up.

The firm ride is caused by the lowered/stiffened springs and the standard bump stop. If you cut 40mm of lower of the bumpstop, the wheel still cant contact the inside wheel arch, but it stops the pogoing.

change the oil every 3k (only costs £25 for oil and a filter).

Unlikely to make a difference.

I reckon there’s a heavy slice of luck with car reliability, as this thread highlights.

I’m on my second Vauxhall in 7 years. I reluctantly got an Astra, and absolutely nothing went wrong in the whole time we had it. For that reason, when it came to new car time, I was pretty set on another Vauxhall (which has also been fine so far).

On the other hand, both my Mum and I had mk4 Golfs, both owned from new, and both were pretty average at times… elec window mechanisms failing, leaky, and my V5 was pretty temperamental at starting, to name a few issues. However, I think people tend to forgive VAG cars for issues that they wouldn’t other manufacturers, because there is a certain loyalty and image attached to the brands.

The thing that sold me on VAG was the interior quality. Looked nicer than the other brands, and at 110k and 8 years old it’s still more or less as new. No rattles, driver’s seat isn’t even worn.