BBC Linky

UKIP candidate supports the idea of aborting foetuses with spina bifida, Down’s syndrome, or other defects which may be a burden on the state.

Oh, and while we’re at it, free euthanasia advice to folk over 80…

And Cameron fears that this is the party to which disaffected Tories will flee?

😆

EDIT (for clarity):

A UKIP candidate who called for an NHS review to look at compulsory abortion of foetuses with Down’s syndrome or spina bifida has been suspended.

If they were to say it was for reasons other than the budren on the state would you be ok with it? I think that it’s a fair choice for parents to be able to make IF there is a highly accurate diagnostic test which can be carried out at an early stage in pregnancy.

lets be entirely clear here. you can chose an abortion on medical grounds if you wish up to 22 weeks.. and that must be allowed to continue.. not all in the world is fluffy and that option/ choice must be available to women.
and equally advice should be available for the latter stages of thier lives if they are 80 or 18 for that matter.

Have you chaps read the article? Does anybody feel comfortable with the word “compulsory”?

I’m all for choice.

Have you chaps read the article? Does anybody feel comfortable with the word “compulsory”?

Nope. Not at all comfy with that. Choice is good, this isn’t.

Thankfully, UKIP are as much of a freakish sideshow as Margaret Burke. Long may it remain that way.

If they were to say it was for reasons other than the budren on the state would you be ok with it? I think that it’s a fair choice for parents to be able to make IF there is a highly accurate diagnostic test which can be carried out at an early stage in pregnancy.

Missing the point glupton. People of UKip’s ilk and a large percentage of tories would love to do this to “prevent a burden on the state” or ” I don’t want to pay for stuff that doesn’t affect me directly”.

At least they are honest about it.

Question those views, myself, but the title here is a little disingenuous, since it’s about UKIP saying that he will not be a candidate of theirs because of exactly this. (I’ll quickly point out that I’m quite a long way away from being a UK IP supporter…)

Just saying.

If elected, he promises to promote the Christian ethic and British culture, roll back Islam, contain UK population growth and restrict immigration.

sounds like a reasonable easy going fella ! these right wing nut jobs feel emboldened at the moment, so more are dropping their guard, saying the unsayable, its a reflection of the political discourse– the race to the right !

“a large percentage of tories would love to do this“

You’re honestly saying that a large percentage of Tories are secretly in favour of compulsory abortions?

Are you on crack?

eadlydarcy – Member
And Cameron fears that this is the party to which disaffected Tories will flee?

Well, they wouldn’t want to vote BNP with all of those ghastly disaffected Labour voters. 😉

If it keeps on like this, Labour will eventually become left-wing again.

Not at all comfortable but amongst his dodgy thoughts is a salient one – the NHS is going to become unaffordable and some very, very tough decisions are going to have to be made. It’s a brilliant thing that people are able to live longer and we have procedures and drugs to prolong life but all this advancement costs money. I think of my father this year – we all knew he was terminal and years ago he would have been sent home to die. In 2011/12 he got endless different drug combinations to try and scans – I reckon about £70-80Ks worth, and that was on a lost cause for a few extra months. It’s got to be paid for somehow. As a nation we have to either embrace it (and pay for it by working even longer and/or paying a greater proportion of or income in tax) or add a load of life saving options to the list of things that would be nice to have but we sadly can’t. Or go down his option (to be fair to him he did only put it out as a possible option, not something he believed should happen).

Some tough choices ahead over the next few decades.

I don’t know bravo…I’m just referencing Cameron’s fears. It’s not a personal opinion.

My eldest sister had Spina Bifida myelomeningocele (the most severe form of Spina Bifida). She died when I was in my early teens and she was one of the brightest funniest people I have ever had the privilege of knowing and I still treasure my memories of my childhood with her to this day.

My wife and I were told that our children were in the high risk category after having the AFP test during both of her pregnancies. There was never a single doubt in our minds whether or not we would consider having an abortion. I cannot imagine how we would have responded had a Dr told us that she had to have a compulsory abortion.

convert – Member

Some tough choices ahead over the next few decades.

Absolutely. Most expensive thing you can ever do to a patient is keep them alive.

Even leaving aside the cost issue, there’s a genuine quality of life concern which so far, we’re not addressing well.

I disagree with this sort of eugenics, but it’s a legitimate subject for discussion.

Mr Clark said on his website he did not endorse the abortion idea but suggested it to cut the national debt.

Playing devils advocate here – he’s maybe just trying to spark a debate about what the NHS and the state should and should not be paying for.

Reminds me of an an environmental economics lecture once, (given by a senior economic advisor to the them prime minister), where he spakred a debate about having a sponsored panda shoot. They rarely breed, live alone, eat one thing yet we spend a fortune keeping them alive – a fortune that could be better used elsewhere saving human lives.

Has anyone read the link? It says that UKIP have suspended the bloke that was advocating the compulsory abortion. Isn’t that a good thing?

Ah I see, so he’s just trolling then is it?

the nhs is brilliant concept, but ideologically it is hated by the tories, they cannot say so, so they hypocritically praise it, while undermining it with policies.

The nhs is one of the most cost effective health care systems on the planet, its being tampered with by imbeciles who only wish to profit from its demise, so it needs more funding, how about getting all the taxes due from the obscene wealth gatherers that use this country. There is a huge amount of uncollected tax, avoided tax, and scams to help the wealthy remain even more so.

Tis easier to blame poor people, those on ‘benefits’ –not on Tax benefits though ! scrap trident– that would sort health care in almost one swoop !

I seem to remember Sir Keith Joseph, in Maggie’s government, having similar views back in the seventies. So it’s not just UKIP that want a slaughter of the innocents.

Not at all comfortable but amongst his dodgy thoughts is a salient one – the NHS is going to be come unaffordable and some very, very tough decisions are going to have to be made. It’s a brilliant thing that people are able to live longer and we have procedures and drugs to prolong life but all this advancement costs money. As a nation we have to either embrace it (and pay for it by working even longer and/or paying a greater proportion of or income in tax) or add a load of life saving options to the list things that would be nice to have but we sadly can’t. Or go down his option (to be fair to him he did only put it as a possible option, not something he believed should happen).

Agreed, and looking at my parents and in-laws (aged 72-79) at least one of them will visit the Doctors/Hospital every week. Plus the amount of medication they take.

I’m not sure of the answer, but I can see the problem.

On a brighter note.

Unlucky Geoff

Unlucky Alf

I’m no UKIP or Tory fan (or Labour or Liberal for that matter) but I really don’t think this is really a common line.

It does however raise an interesting point about the quality of candidate in politics. Was this guy, previous to his PR blunder was considered a serious contender? Ignoring the moral issue of compulsory abortion and just thinking about his cost savings argument. Did he just pull this idea of of this air or had he actual done some basic sums to work out how much this would really save the NHS? Its a bit like Philip Hammond with his 80 mph speed limit will increase economic activity policy. It seems some of these political types just though policy ideas out there without having done some basic research. We all have ideas that are crap but as a politician shouldn’t some basic costing (if its a money saving policy) or whatever go on before they start using it as a tool to be elected?

“So it’s not just UKIP that want a slaughter of the innocents.”

They’ve suspended the bloke! You’re all reacting like Mail readers.

You’re honestly saying that a large percentage of Tories are secretly in favour of compulsory abortions?

Are you on crack?

Hit a nerve did I?

I’m not sure of the answer, but I can see the problem.

Absolutely. Most expensive thing you can ever do to a patient is keep them alive.

Even leaving aside the cost issue

the NHS is going to become unaffordable and some very, very tough decisions are going to have to be made.

Why don’t some of you “do a UKIP”, and just say it is a cost issue instead of trying to be some sort of tortured souls over the “morality” of it all?

The NHS is affordable now and in the future. What I would suggest is that you take up the free euthanasia advice as it seems none of you are planning on getting old.

rudebwoy – Member

The nhs is one of the most cost effective health care systems on the planet

Source?

its being tampered with by imbeciles who only wish to profit from its demise, so it needs more funding, how about getting all the taxes due from the obscene wealth gatherers that use this country. There is a huge amount of uncollected tax, avoided tax, and scams to help the wealthy remain even more so.

Hang on a minute, you don’t pay any tax!

The NHS is run appallingly badly.
A good friend is being denied an operation he needs because it is too expensive (£5,000).
Meanwhile, he has received over £20,000 worth of pain relief which is needed because he hasn’t had the operation.
You call that cost effective? 😆

shifter – Member

Has anyone read the link? It says that UKIP have suspended the bloke that was advocating the compulsory abortion. Isn’t that a good thing?

Sensible post is sensible.

Well, I suppose it makes a change from the right wing nutters (TM) being against abortion 😕

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0aNxzF7MAk[/video]

Northwind +1
Rudebwoy -1

Just because it isn’t palatable doesn’t mean we shouldn’t discuss it, even if ultimately we’d have to be so far in the sh1t to seriously consider it.

shifter – Member
Has anyone read the link? It says that UKIP have suspended the bloke that was advocating the compulsory abortion. Isn’t that a good thing?

Don’t tell them that, they’ll have nowt to rattle on about then…

if you read my post sbob instead of jumping to conclusions, you will be aware that tampering by imbeciles will create a situation that you have described– who’s interest is that for– the company who supply pain relief –it seems that if you let the workers who actually run the show, manage it –then you would see vast improvements– but as you may or may not know a huge parasitical device has been fostered onto the back of it to ensure plenty of pickings for private suppliers……tis a scandal

[rattle]Well they were happy to have him until he said something nutty. You’d think they’d have some idea what he was like. [/rattle]

Oh look…

Tories popularity waning as support drifts towards UKIP. Oh dear.

rudebwoy – Member

if you read my post sbob

I did.
Care to share your source for it being so cost effective?
An independant source would be nice. 😉

It wasn’t me that just jumped to a conclusion… 💡

Rattle, rattle…

http://shortreports.rsmjournals.com/content/2/7/60.abstract

Rattle, rattle…

You alright there? Sounding a bit empty-vessel.

imagine a man from a country where a woman is left to die because she is illegaly denied a life saving abortion starting a thread where he takes the moral high ground on abortion

Well, the NHS is one of the finest and noblest aspects of our society. And pretty much anyone who believes it’s a luxury that should be degraded over cost issues is, imho a total nob head.

A society that protects those in need is a society to be aspired for.

I do think having a national health service is a wonderful thing, a necessary thing for a civilized country.
It does need improvement though.

imagine a man from a country where a woman is left to die because she is illegaly denied a life saving abortion starting a thread where he takes the moral high ground on abortion

I’m imagining…

…and yes, I’m having no problem visualising it. What exactly is your problem with the concept?

It pays to sometimes re-read one’s post before posting to avoid looking like a bit of an eejit. Might I suggest you give that a go next time.

I seem to remember Sir Keith Joseph, in Maggie’s government, having similar views back in the seventies.

…along with a good chunk of the Swedish medical establishment that sterilised and performed abortions against the will of handicapped women.