https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/11/uk-universal-basic-services-jonathan-portes

Absolutely, imo. Expansion of universalism is the way forward imo. Though i suspect it’ll have alot redistance, particularly on here, and it’ll take some while. It’ll happen eventually imo. No for a long while mind you, the I’m alright jack attitude is strong in the UK. I’d include all basic needs too, energy, childcare etc.

I’m in.

For me though the unanswered question is what would happen to inflation?

If everyone gets an extra £500/mo then we’re all richer, so rent and house prices would inevitably climb.

Isnt this perilously close to communism….. I mean its not communism but it wouldnt take much to upset the applecart and end up with comunism from there….

How ever it would mean id be less liekly to be working for da man so im in 🙂

No, it’s not communism. Communism means the state owns all economic activity. This does nothing of the sort. You are still free to go out and work and make much more money, the point is that if you don’t or can’t, you’re still ok. You now have the choice to ride round the world or paint squirrels for a year or whatever.

The UK would soon dominate sport and a major new artistic golden age would develop.

Read what i wrote again.

When automation, robots and bots lead to mass unemployement and greater inequality then we need to do something. Better if we have some alternative options in place before then.

Isnt this perilously close to communism.

No, It’s not perilously close to communism.

Then, what molgrips wrote.

I am in favour of everybody being provided the means to live a “basic” life by the state. I suspect I might end up paying for it through my taxes, but I’m ok with that if I get the associated societal benefits.

Read what i wrote again.

Ok, it’s not perilously close to communism either because communism is a different thing like what I wrote.

or paint squirrels for a year or whatever.

I’m in. What colour do you want you’re squirrels painted?

Yep as per the second half of what i wrote where i started “i mean its not communism but…”

State has to pay for all this some how.

Paint the grey ones red please.

automation, robots and bots lead to mass unemployement

Just like every other tool has.

Actually – this is just a negative poll tax, isn’t it?

Just knock six grand off everyone’s tax bill.

Who builds and codes the robots 😉

No…. People should get what they deserve. If they want things they either go out and get a paid job, or they fund them by performing crap community services type role, sweeping the streets, cleaning graffiti etc.

I’m all for being fair, but there’s enough lazy slobs in the UK without encouraging more.

This is one way the world could go if/when humans become obsolete as workers.

The other, more likely one is that the rich will continue to remain so, and the poor will starve to death, or we’ll murder the lot of them.

Who builds and codes the robots

A fraction of the labour force they replace?

People should get what they deserve.

Why?

Why is work so important?

Why are people who don’t work worthless? My wife doesn’t work.

Who builds and codes the robots

Miles Dyson. It doesn’t end well.

State has to pay for all this some how

Make Mexico pay?

Ever see that documentary series.

Wall-e (the rich)

Or

Hunger games (the poor)

No…. People should get what they deserve.

Who doesn’t deserve a roof over their head and food on the table?

Just knock six grand off everyone’s tax bill.

Give some people choice between a roof over the head and a meal – they will still light up thencrack pipe.

It would have to be vouchers /soylent green or something to ensure they eat and dont sell the structure of the house in piece parts to fund their habit.

Why?

Why is work so important?

Because the country is in a crap state, make them work cleaning up hospitals, make them work sweeping the gutters, trimming hedges, looking after the elderly.

I don’t get why I have to work and others don’t ? Sure there are exceptions with disabilities and old people, but you go into every town/city and you see thousands upon thousands of people who are not working but are still giving housing, etc…. Sod that, get them doing something useful.

So you get a bed in a dormiatory and a meal from the canteen,

You want more you work,

Solved – next

I don’t get why I have to work and others don’t ?

You wouldn’t, if you had a universal income…

Who doesn’t deserve a roof over their head and food on the table?

The feckless poor, obviously…

A fraction of the labour force they replace?

Exactly. just like the invention of washing machines means now there are loads of people sitting around doing nothing. They definitely buave not found other productive use of their time.

Might already be happening.

I remember reading somewhere about a country (I think it was Australia) which issues a benefits card which can only be spent on food, housing, transport and other basic needs and can’t be spent on booze and fags and drugs.

Edit : Yep, Australia… http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18951205

Who doesn’t deserve a roof over their head and food on the table?

Easy, people who don’t ‘earn’ it in some way.

It would have to be vouchers /soylent green or something to ensure they eat and dont sell the structure of the house in piece parts to fund their habit.

Agreed if the income or benefit is to be used for particular use it can’t just be a lump of money.

How do you define ‘earn’ ?

Is the person who helps an elderly neighbour, does voluntary work and cleans local litter not deserving compared to the complete arsehole who works in sales driving all over the country in a flash polluting car to schmooze clients?

Another question – who here would quit their job if they had £500/mo basic income? Would you sit around all day watching telly?

while its a nice idea, I can’t help feeling i’d just end up paying £500 more a month in tax.

molgrips – Member
How do you define ‘earn’ ?

Is the person who helps an elderly neighbour, does voluntary work and cleans local litter not deserving compared to the complete arsehole who works in sales driving all over the country in a flash polluting car to schmooze clients?

Both are equally deserving, however, you’re missing what i’m saying… Neither of these people are the problem, they’re not the situation that’s being solved… it’s the 100,000s of people who do neither that are the issue. Why should they be funded ?

Why is work so important?

Aside from the fact that there are jobs to be done as Weeksy says, it teaches people the value of money, and gives them an appreciation of where it comes from. Too many people know the price of everything but the value of nothing. I don’t see why any fit and able unemployed person should sit on their arse all day. Yes, I have been there, yes I would have gladly worked for my £70/wk as I knew it was only temperoary for me, but I’m a lazy bugger and I would have gladly done nothing if I’d not had a motgage to pay and a wife to not let down….

Another question – who here would quit their job if they had £500/mo basic income? Would you sit around all day watching telly?

With no rent/mortgage to pay? *raises hand* might nip out for a ride every now and then, but I certainly wouldn’t work

it’s the 100,000s of people who do neither that are the issue. Why should they be funded ?

Did you must make up that number?

I certainly wouldn’t work

Sure? What would you actually do?

Another question – who here would quit their job if they had £500/mo basic income? Would you sit around all day watching telly?

With housing, food, transport and internet paid for then me, absolutely. Household income of £1k per month (tax free I assume) with no major costs coming out? I’d do it tomorrow without any thought at all.

What would I do? Ride my bikes, run, build stuff. Nothing productive but just stuff. Might throw a few months of work in each year to give me enough to go on a nice holiday but yeah, I’m keen.

Did you must make up that number?

Well, ask yourself this, how many people are unemployed in the UK ?

Then ask, how many have the ability to work ?

I bet that still leaves PLENTY who are not working out of choice.