What’s the STW take on making a house child safe?

I was under the impression that the UK plug sockets are already very safe and that kids would struggle to electrocute themselves easily due the third pin design.

However, plug covers that insert into the sockets appear to be very popular and I see them in many houses.

So what’s the safest way?

They cost pence, in fact I think we got given some so fitted them.

Corner protectors on the other hand are pointless…

I always thoughtvthe same but Mrs Anagallus bought them and gave me orders

Sticking scissors in the socket didn’t do my baby bro any harm. Much harm. Actually, it might explain quite a lot…

Part of my work is h&s in public spaces with kids and there is a real mix with those plug covers. Some places use them others actively don’t as they can make things worse. UK sockets are inherently safe as the live pins have shutters that only open when the earth pin is inserted. It is possible to insert those safety covers upside down so the live pins become exposed. Unlikely but possible. Another problem is that the shutters don’t work properly on some cheap sockets and some older sockets don’t have them at all.

It it were me first thing would be to make sure all sockets have rcd protection. Then go round and make sure all sockets have working shutters (turn off power and try and poke something in) That should be plenty safe.

From memory the uk plug covers actually make things worse, as they give you a relatively flexible piece of plastic with correctly shaped pins attached.

So little Johnny can push the earth pin in and leave live and neutral open and exposed for insertion of tiny toys.

(Then go round and make sure all sockets have working shutters (turn off power and try and poke something in) That should be plenty safe.)

Do not try this at home if in doubt get someone in who knows what they are doing.
Never poke anything into a socket unless it is a plug made for the fitting.

Never fitted them. Told daughter not to go near them.

nearly 4 yrs old & not electrocuted yet… In fact I trust her enough to just use a socket like a socket. No screwdrivers needed

I went off my nut when my wife decorated the table & fireplace with the corner protector guff. Took months with a stanley blade to get all the adhesive off

regarding those plug caps, neither RoSPA, CAPT, Ofsted, IET, HSE, Which (who are on the fence) or the Fire Service recommend their use and some actively discourage it.

More info

http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/
http://capt.org.uk/safety-advice/keeping-children-safe-electric-shocks
http://www.rospa.com/faqs/detail.aspx?faq=595
http://www.wmfs.net/content/plug-socket-covers
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/filedownloading/?file=documents/other-publications/e/Early%20years%20September%202011.pdf&refer=1
http://www.patmarshall.co.uk/health_and_safety/socket_covers.htm

The plastic covers don’t conform to any UK safety standards as there are none. All UK sockets must conform to UK safety standards… IKEA and mothercare stopped selling covers in the UK because they were shown to be potentially dangerous. They can be easily flipped to open the shutters and effectively overcome the main safety feature of UK sockets. Total waste of money imo and feeds on parental fears.
Edit… As above.

Another important thing would be to make sure all your plugs are proper standard ones with sleeves on the L and N pins; we’ve got a few that aren’t, which makes me nervous pulling them out, let alone a curious toddler.

The UK has massively over-engineered mains power sockets. Plug covers enable kids to bypass the inherent safety properties of the UK mains plug. Leave them alone, do not buy them. Seriously, this is a rare black-and-white question, don’t do it.

They cost pence, in fact I think we got given some so fitted them.

Take them out and burn them.

Here’s a fun exercise. Take a plug cover, turn it upside-down and wedge the earth pin back in. Observe what happens.

Any questions?

Cougar – Moderator
Take them out and burn them.

Here’s a fun exercise. Take a plug cover, turn it upside-down and wedge the earth pin back in. Observe what happens.

Perfectly put, we have one of the safest systems in the world and we then give people a device that allows a relatively easy way to defeat it!!

When i was a kid the christmas lights failed so i unscrewed the little bulb and stuck a meccanno screwdriver in, and got thrown accross the room,now thetyre low energy on a small transformer, and a freind put his fingers in the bulb socket of a table lamp that had the bulb removed, if its there some child will try and shove something into an aperture.

We got some in a kit with child proof cupboard locks.
Never used them,as Mork really ,L’il J was quite adept at plugging in the Henry at 2yo.
He’s also handy with a saw ,18vdrill driver,claw hammer & an axe(kindling chopping =living the stw dream)!
Due to spending most of his life around a building site ,we decided to show him how most tools work and can hurt.
Not keen on the SDS.
So far,touch wood…. 😀

Corner protectors are pointless…

Very good.

You’ll find that some plug covers are frustrating when you want to plug something in and they are really tight. Human nature tends to lead you to then not bother replacing them

I can’t think of a country that has a safer plug/socket system than the UK.

Socket protectors are a wash when it comes to improving things.

Personally I wouldn’t, because from my own experience as a child, when something is “protected” or put out of reach, it becomes far more attractive.

I assume everyone has a 30mA differential breaker on their plug circuits. And current breakers that match the cable thickness in the circuit.

The idea that the UK has a safe electrical system is false. The US uses 110v which is inherently safer. In most of Europe a 30mA breaker on every circuit is obligatory. English visitors to a campsite I used to work on were forever asking me to put their power back on because their hairdryers/toasters etc. had faults that tripped the French system but obviously worked fine a home.

Radial wiring with breakers based on the capacity of the wiring and appliances concerned is safer than a high rated breaker for the whole houuse and 13A fuses in plugs. Do you have the correct fuse in every appliance? (Edit house fires are the main cause of electrical deaths)

The UK has similar number of electrocutions and electrical house fires (the main cause of death IIRC) as comparable developed countries. I’ll look for some stats.

Edit: Some stats Note that over half private rented properties don’t have differential breakers.

Safer plug/socket system was the assertion. I don’t know why you’re going off on some tangent.

It’s far from a tangent, it’s the only post that properly addresses the issue of safe home electrics.

If you are worried about your children’s safety make sure you have:

30mA breakers on every circuit and test them regularly
wiring and sockets in good condition
current breakers suited to the circuit
correctly rated fuses in plugs
appliances and cables in good condition
appliances suitable for use in wet rooms in you bathroom. Correct level of IP

and that you respect the distances of appliances from sources of water and consider fire risk when using appliances.

Sticking plastic things in sockets is a Bandaid.

Edit to correct: about 40% don’t have differential breakers and half don’t have all electrical safety features

However, plug covers that insert into the sockets appear to be very popular and I see them in many houses.

Completely unnecessary (unless you have 30 year old sockets) as the L & N have shutters over them which are only released when the Earth pin is inserted.

In most of Europe a 30mA breaker on every circuit is obligatory.

Same as the UK then (although as regs aren’t applied retrospectively and we have a lot of old houses, plenty of homes don’t have them).

and a freind put his fingers in the bulb socket of a table lamp that had the bulb removed

I did that when I was three, and now have no fingerprint on my forefinger. I was rewarded, for my efforts, with a penguin biscuit which I’m sure started of my interest in Electricity. Have had hundreds of shocks over the years ever since…..

Nice article and video on the British Plug Design

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3032807/why-england-has-the-best-wall-sockets-on-earth

UK plugs are very safe.

Compare with these adapters which come shipped with some Chinese electrical goods (I received one last week).

If you have any then chuck them away.

Apart from the poor internals, it’s possible to plug a UK earth pin into the “live” connector and make a metal appliance live 😯 (I doubt that an adult would do this but a curious child could).

Big Clive takes one apart

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB1DlBpyS9w[/video]

Only in houses built after 2008, Footflaps. However, in Germany it’s an obligation on all circuits up to 20A. In France there’s a rule that if you touch it you upgrade it, but in the UK you can go on maintaining your house without differential breakers – and according to those stats I posted most people still do.

Meh… we use a few of those plastic plug covers, especially for the empty sockets (and sockets on trailer cables) in the kids’ rooms where they might be playing unsupervised.

Yes, I completely understand about the shutters on live and neutral, but they can be lifted by anything being stuck in the earth and that’s exactly the kind of fascinating mechanism that I’d want to explore as a kid.

Conversely the plug covers are an absolute ballache to remove as they sit flush and have no grip on them, so I’m not worried about little fingers removing them.

The idea that the UK has a safe electrical system is false.

With only 22 domestic deaths per year, it would suggest that it’s about as safe as you’re going to get for a population of 65 million using multiple appliances every day. You’re getting into very large diminishing returns trying to reduce it any further and there are plenty of other things, with higher death rates, which should get more attention.

The US uses 110v which is inherently safer.

yet they have 400 deaths per year* (pop 280m) vs 22 in the UK (pop 65m)

So, the stats quite clearly show that the US system kills a higher percentage of the population….

* http://ccd.fnal.gov/fire/Electrial_Safety.pdf

I take your point, Footflaps. I agree with the diminishing returns analysis which is why I pointing out that worryin gabout a very safe plug system is pointless idf your house lectrical system isn’ up to date.40 fire deaths quoted here and the rest is worth a read

Edit – yes my typing is lousy today

Conversely the plug covers are an absolute ballache to remove as they sit flush and have no grip on them, so I’m not worried about little fingers removing them.

Quite. The ones we have don’t come out without using the correct tool (another plug cover).

No such thing as a safe voltage.

I have the Ikea covers, they’re not as bendy as the old ones apparantly were. I haven’t checked in a while but my reasoning was that if they keep a socket covered that bit longer then all the better. Its a piece of piss to open the shutters, I did and got a nice zap for my troubles, as said a modern consumer unit ihas more protection against this so I have probably made the covers redundant but I know better than to rely on one thing to provide safety.

As for regs, it depends on the extent of the work being carried out. Not much is really permitted for diy work these days so anything that falls outside that scope will require a full signing off afterwards.

No such thing as a safe voltage.

Really?

55v double pole (Industrial 110v supply) has never caused a fatality in the UK.

Seems pretty safe to me.

Not much is really permitted for diy work these days

Almost everything can be DIYed. You could do quite a lot before but in the last few years the rules have been relaxed even further.

Really?

55v double pole (Industrial 110v supply) has never caused a fatality in the UK.

Seems pretty safe to me.

But it does have quite an irritating habit of setting fire to buildings in the USA and Japan, so YMMV.

I’m not impressed with plug covers, because if you pull it out and stick it in the socket upside-down you open the shutters on the L/N pins.

Take the very sensible advice others have offered here – make sure your RCD works, or get one fitted if you haven’t got one already.

But it does have quite an irritating habit of setting fire to buildings in the USA and Japan, so YMMV.

110v in the US is not the same as 55v double pole.

Almost everything can be DIYed. You could do quite a lot before but in the last few years the rules have been relaxed even further.

I thought the rule was essentially “you can replace like for like, but anything else needs signing off”?

This high horse has RCD’s, the correct rated circuit breakers, and a metal consumer unit. So 😛

Not much is really permitted for diy work these days

Also, fairly academic as there is no way to tell who has added what and all electrical items are freely available to everyone.

When you say its a piece of piss to open the shutters could you tell me how you did it?. you would need at least two suitable objects and one would have to be metal. If it were easier than that I’d say your socket was defective (can happen if its damaged) and so its not as easy as you suggest.

I thought the rule was essentially “you can replace like for like, but anything else needs signing off”?

That is the case for special locations (kitchen and bathroom) but in rest of the house you can do a lot more, still needs to be to current standards though. You can also diy stuff that needs signing off but that is a little more complicated