Hello,

My local riding is really boring and flat stamina fitness crap. Lordswood/QECP if I’m up for a drive. I want to start travelling more and going to Wales/Scotland for breaks with the bike.

What’s the current “UK Standard” for red route trail centre type stuff?
I’m not looking to do enduro/DH/black runs. Just something I can roll up with and be confident in the bike.

Been looking at the Canyon Nerve series for example
https://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3572

120mm travel and a 69.5 head angle – is this a bit on the XC side these days?

Current ride is a On One 456C with 140mm. 67 I think the HA is, admittedly it’s a bit silly up front and don’t think I’d like a full suss with those figures, but is that what I need to look for?

What’s the current “UK Standard”

You’ve probably noticed a few threads about wheel size over the last year or two. Consequently there isn;t a “standard” atm (probably a good thing).

Personally I’m really liking a slack-ish (67deg) full-sus 29er with 130mm travel rear and 150mm Pike on front.

Light enough, pedals up and along great and is suprisingly capable on proper big mountain trails.

chakaping – Member

Light enough, pedals up and along great and is suprisingly capable on proper big mountain trails.

Sounds perfect for the kind of trails the OP specifically said he wouldn’t be riding

I’ve had a range of bikes from 26″ hardtail to 26″ long travel full sus and I’m now on a 29″ hardtail and have to say for trail center riding the 29″ hardtail is about the most fun.

A short travel full sus is a pretty close second and more comfortable for longer days in the saddle.

Hmm yes, I think the Nerve I linked would be spot on if the HA was slackened to 67.

These days a there are plenty of short travel bikes that’ll cope with anything, but won’t leave you overbiked on the local rides.

After years of being an ardent 26″ fan I’ve just taken the plunge with a 29er Stumpjumper…I’ve yet to ride it on my local trails.

Sounds perfect for the kind of trails the OP specifically said he wouldn’t be riding

Its great to see someone offer no advice but just slate someone else’s advice.

Which post do you think the OP found most useful:roll:

At least say what you think is perfect whilst be Dr Diss

In recent issues of mags like MBUK I’ve noticed that shortish travel 29ers are making a bid for “best all rounder”. Basically the industry will tell us what the best all-rounder is and the brands will all clammer to fill that market. You will therefore have a huge choice of bikes to test-ride so you can then buy the one that you enjoy riding the most.

Personally I think more than 150mm suspension is unnecessary for the riding you describe, but I would go full suss.

[EDIT] – I have a 26er Transition Bandit with 140mm fork and 130mm at the back. It is the perfect compromise for the Peak District and trail centre riding I do; not too ponderous on the ups and more capable than me on the downs. Do I sometimes want something lighter and more responsive on the climbs? Yes. Do I sometimes want something burlier on the downs? Yes.

I think the Bandit has the sweet spot for me, but I’m sure there are other bikes as good if not better now.

29er 120mm-130mm
650b 130-140mm
26” 140-150mm

I think anything over 140mm is overkill really.

There’s nothing I haven’t managed yet on my 29er HT but there’s been a few times I’ve wished for something a bit smoother. Something like a Kona process 111 would be loveley I reckon.

Bird have got their new FS coming out soon and looks to be good value :

Exclusive First Look : Bird Aeris | New UK Based 650B bike

Sounds perfect for the kind of trails the OP specifically said he wouldn’t be riding

No, perfect for what he wants – but capable of a lot more – and with no real penalty while riding the easier stuff.

In the last seven years my all round bike has gone through the following incarnations

160 mm 26″ full sus (Enduro)
140 mm 26″ HT (BfE)
140 mm full sus (Nicolai Helius)
100 mm 29″ HT (Solaris)
120 mm 29″ full sus (Gyro)

The last two were the most “all round” for me. Can’t see me ever going back now from 29″. YMMV of course.

i was going to say kona Process too.

That Bird looks alright, and I’ll check the Kona, cheers!

Canyon also do the Strive with 140mm out back, but 150 up the front. I’d simply look silly trying to hoon it along a fire road on that.

Well if you want to buy a complete new bike you are going to be pushed towards 27.5 or 29

Personally I am firmly in the 26 camp but for your new bike I’d look for 140m travel 27.5 there are many many good bikes out there, for the ones I’m familiar with in terms of mainstream brands Lapierre Zesty, Cube AM. Orange 5 is aimed squarely at that sort of riding. I have a Transition and the Bandit would offer you a lot.

All of these bikes can replace your On One or you can keep it as a backup. IMO you don’t need 140m for your current trails and you could ride that 456 at any trail centre red or natural rides in Wales, Peak District etc. If you want just one bike you could buy a Bandit/5/… frame and transfer your kit over with a few upgrades if you fancy.

for me

29er 100mm rear travel and 120 forks

can be quick in the xc world and more than enough for trail centres

biased as I have a rocky mountain element that is great riding to the trail centre 20 miles round trip on road and wonderful round trail centre enough to feel as I am riding not sat on a sofa.

or cheaper
26er with 140mm fork and 100mm rear travel and 2.4 tyres………..silliness personified

All of these bikes can replace your On One or you can keep it as a backup. IMO you don’t need 140m for your current trails and you could ride that 456 at any trail centre red or natural rides in Wales, Peak District etc. If you want just one bike you could buy a Bandit/5/… frame and transfer your kit over with a few upgrades if you fancy.

Yeah that’s the other option, buy a frame and transfer over what I can. Truth be told I kind of fancy “starting fresh” with a new complete. Which limits things slightly I know.

I don’t mimd 27.5. Not so keen on 29er tho.

I have had many bikes over the years and tried to slim back to just a bfe last year
All was good but found myself after a full sis again so got a cheap zesty frame and swapped all the bits over – full sis on the cheap
I had 2 spicys in the past and always felt a little to much for trail centres so hoping the 140 zesty will be perfect

Try the 456 first

If you do decide you want to change then don’t obsess over angles and lengths, try before you buy.

Try a few different bikes. Pick the one you like the fit and ride of the most and fits your budget.
Don’t get too hung up on angles, BB heights, wheel size and travel (within reason).

To be fair, although I’ve recommended a short travel 29er, my next bike is likely to be that Bird, it looks mint. Won the grouptest in this months WMB too.

Thanks for the mention TurnerGuy. Theres a review of the Aeris in a bike direct vs. shop bike test in WMB out next week. Probably worth a look! If I can offer one bit of advice its don’t rule out a longer travel slacker bike, you’d be surprised how easy going it can be on the more mundane stuff if well executed – travel does not equal XC/singletrack capability.

“it’s stable, lively, communicative and incredibly fast.” Just sayin’

As you can see from the responses from this thread its dependant on personal preference. You’re going to get so many different answers and not everyone is going to agree.

For example the Bird bike suggested above is not something I would have picked for your needs. Its designed for a privateer enduro rider. Its slack and burly which according to me doesn’t sound ideal for your needs. Personally I’d want something lighter, less travel and more responsive handling.

Best thing you can do is demo as many different types of bikes as you can and decide for your self.

I was in a very similar position last year when buying my first full suss. I tried everything from 100mm XC bikes to 160mm All Mountain bikes.

I ended up going for a Transition Bandit 26 as it was just so much fun to ride. I do a bit of all kinds of riding from 50Km all day XC rides to trail centres, jumpy bike park and DH. The Transition can cope fine with a bit of burly action. The second choice was a Trek Fuel EX which was better on single track but I wasn’t sure if it would cope with regularly being thrown down a DH run.

But that’s just my story you may have a totally different set of preferences.

* edit just seen Ben’s comment about his Bird bike. Another point, don’t judge a bike by the numbers on a spec sheet. You need to ride it to see what its really like. 😉

Check out the 2015 Commencal Meta Trail too. Good value now that they’re selling direct and they look great. Not seen any proper tests though.

It’s 27b and 120mm travel.

http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCCatalog.asp?ActionID=67174912&PBCATID=2353602&PBCATName=2015

Some weird specs on those Bird bikes.
As for the OP, I don’t think you’d go far wrong with a Giant Trance. A mate has one and it’s very good.

Some weird specs on those Bird bikes.

Weird How Wrecker?

Weird in the way that there’s nothing to change once you get it home maybe?

120mm travel and a 69.5 head angle – is this a bit on the XC side these days?

It is, but a few years ago that was pretty standard trail geometry (e.g. Trance etc) and the trails haven’t changed, which does suggest that a lot of what we are sold is just fashion.

Something slacker will feel more stable at high speed (e.g. descending), but be harder to keep on line during slow speed sections (e.g. climbing). Not better or worse, just different.

Bigger wheels roll over stuff better, but are slower to turn. They also feel more stable at high speed, but are harder to keep on line at slow speed. Again, not better or worse, just different.

More travel smooths out bumps, but is generally less efficient.

You get the picture. It’s all just trade-offs and there are lots of combinations of wheelsize, travel and angles that can all achieve similar results in practice.

On the plus side pretty much any modern bike will be good and they are all a lot more versatile than we sometimes think. So, just pick the one that looks the best!

travel slacker bike, you’d be surprised how easy going it can be on the more mundane stuff if well executed – travel does not equal XC/singletrack capability.

“it’s stable, lively, communicative and incredibly fast.” Just sayin’

most sensible comment on stw I a while IMHO

I have had 7 inch travel 26 er Yeti that on some climbs is still the fastest ascender I have owned, I made the switch to 29ers and especially the Rocky because I felt for me it was

travel slacker bike, you’d be surprised how easy going it can be on the more mundane stuff if well executed – travel does not equal XC/singletrack capability.

“it’s stable, lively, communicative and incredibly fast.” Just sayin’

As always go and ride a few and then decide .

but I assure you it will be a 29er Rocky Mountain 8) 😆

😀

tbh, all this “long travel bikes don’t go up hills” stuff is a bit ancient history these days, what with modern lightweight frames and components, decent geo, steeper seat post angles, and crucially modern damping etc.

Sure, a sub10kg race 29er hardtail is going be quicker in an actual XC race than a 13kg 160mm Enduro bike, but not by as much as you might think i suspect. In any case, i’ve always found the biggest difference is in the “engine room”…… 😉

In terms of do it all, a modern 130mm travel bike, with any wheel size will be perfect.

That Commencal could be promising. The Bird looks great too on paper – although in the looks dept. alongside the Canyon it perhaps takes 2nd place for me.

I can’t seem to find a Transition Bandit 26 anywhere for sale on the Googles. Are they new or discontinued?

The Trance 27.5 as suggested is a great bike – I rode it for a day in NZ earlier this year and it was awesome. But in order to get some decent suspension you’re at change of £2k.

I should probably add – whilst I don’t hit doubles and DH runs, I am a fan of a decent drop or pinging off a kicker/trail feature. So maybe on reflection more than 120mm each end is needed after all…?

+1 to what roverpig has written.

Confidence in the bike can be a funny thing: what tracks fine for one person might not be right for another. Some bikes you just don’t get on with. One person might have a long torso and short legs so suits a particular bike but for someone with a short torso and long legs that bike doesn’t work. Manufacturers will create a frame based on statistical averages (this is the same for pretty much anything you wear) which is fine if you are a close fit to that statistical curve but if you aren’t then it all becomes a bit of a minefield.

Unless you’ve loads of cash to be able to keep changing your bike, I think demo bikes/days are the way to go (I’ve no connection with any such scheme BTW) especially now that there are so many options: wheel sizes; suspension linkages; etc. If you buy from the same retailer then usually you get the demo fee knocked off so it hasn’t cost you much if anything. I demoed a couple of bikes that on paper were virtually identical: top tubes and chainstays within 5mm of each other; head angles the same. Set up the contact points identically. One bike (that gets good reviews and even positive comments on here) was good but the other was brilliant.

Crucially I’ve masses of confidence in it, any failures to clean a bit of trail are down to me not the bike.

Weird How Wrecker?

Well, the gear spec barely change from the 2 to the RS. In fact, there isn’t a huge difference between the specs at all apart from the shock (the forks are fairly comparable) The mid range 1 has the best brakes (Hayes rotors?), and seemingly a lot of the build budget has been splurged on a fancy shock. The wheels are a curious choice, I don’t know the deal you got on them but they are smiliar in RRP to Hoops/flow EX, which would fit a lot better into the AM/Enduro peg rather than the turbines. I’m not having a pop, far from it. It just made me scratch my head a bit. Why anyone would go for the range topper over the aeris 1 is beyond me. Seems to be an extra £500 odd for a carbon crankset. Oh, and lose the chain device and put a NW ring on!

It is a subjective question and you need to think what kind of rider you are and what kind of riding you will be doing.

If you take Glentress Red as an example because people are familiar with it. You will see people riding it on Enduro bikes with 6″ travel through to rigid singlespeeds. The bike won’t be the limiting factor on a trail centre.

Personally having ridden it on rigid singlespeeds, 100mm hardtails and a 5″ full suss I would say something around the 120mm full suss mark is a good compromise in a 26″ flavour. In my experience bigger wheels allow shorter travel.

These bikes can be light enough that you can get up the hills quickly but have enough suspension performance to not hold you back on the descents.

Go shorter if you are more XC biased and prefer longer rides and attacking the climbs as well as the descents. Go longer if it is all about pushing yourself on the way down.

I have riden a 140mm steel hardtail, rigid singlespeed, 100mm hardtail, 5″ full suss and 120mm 29er around these place. All are fun but in different ways. 29er is the latest as I’m becoming more XC orientated and wanted a simple hardtail.

The Canyon bikes are nice, seen a few in the flesh.

The bike won’t be the limiting factor on a trail centre.

This.

Short travel 26 or 29er will cope most of your riding. My son’s Giant Trance is too much bike for my style of riding, but he likes the jumps and DH. So I’d say Giant Anthem (and I ride a steel SS 26″ HT and previously a rigid SS 29er).

I can’t seem to find a Transition Bandit 26 anywhere for sale on the Googles. Are they new or discontinued?

The 26 is discontinued. Current Bandits are available in 650B and 29er versions.

OK, dealing with them one at a time – these are sample specs, you can pick pretty much what you like of course!….

From 2 to RS – the bars, stem, wheels, tyres, shock, forks all change. What else would we change? Its got the best BB, best cassette (within reason), best headset, reverb stealth, charge saddle… I could go on. We don’t spec crud on the low end, so theres less to change on the high end.

XT is not as good as Zee braking wise. Zee costs more and works better. We run Hayes rotors because they are lighter and offer better modulation than the equivalent shimanos.

We used to run hope wheels – we dropped them after we got alot of issues. On the Aeris we also run a number of DT options and a carbon bird wheel too.

The RS gets the shock upgrade, carbon bars, much lighter/stronger wheels and carbon cranks on this spec, but of course you can change all those things anyway…. All our 1x bikes run NW. We offer chain devices because NW will drop if you ride hard enough, and the taco is useful for such a low BB. You can bin that off if you want of course, its your choice.

Dude, spec your bikes however you want!
I wasn’t having a pop, just to me the line up looks odd. I wouldn’t take Zee brakes over XT and certainly wouldn’t pay more for them. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding, see what your best sellers are and amend the range to suit. Whatever happens; good luck with it, it’s an interesting looking bike.
What’s the frame only cost? At the right price, I could see this doing very well indeed as a five alternative now their pricings gone “aspirational”.

I’m in a pretty similar position to the OP – mostly ride XC locally in the South Downs, but with a (very mild) bit of air and dropping etc, and travel to Wales/Lakes for bigger stuff 2/3 times a year.

I’ve just upgraded from a Cotic Soul 26″ which was as burly as I could get it (140mm Revs, huge tyres) to a Giant Trance 27.5 full suss. Obviously it’s the best bike known to man because I just bought it, but the acid test was last week when I took it out on our regular Downs Sunday spin. I had a hangover, I hadn’t ridden for two weeks and the bike’s heavier, and I worried that i’d get dropped/beaten back by the climbs, or be fighting the bike all the time, and I wasn’t. Plus the travel/increased wheel size made bumpy descents a heap of fun, and I know it’s going to be a belter at BPW.