Viewing 35 posts - 1 through 35 (of 35 total)
  • Tyre choices, all in the mind?
  • nickhit3
    Free Member

    This might be a can of worms, but having recently mentioned a particular new tyre combination on social media, an acquaintance and rider who I respect simply offered that my particular combination might be “wrong” and essentially my tires should be swapped from the front wheel to the back.. not a big deal necessarily you say, merely a difference of opinion, but it made me ponder how much of tyre choice is placebo.

    FWIW my particular combination has graced several racer setups as far as i can tell, and I’ve seen and read- on here no less- that there’s little wrong with it. More importantly, I’ve not had a single problem with it in the real world, but somehow I’m wrong.. how much of tyre choice if bullshit then? For clarity my choice is a 2.4 Maxxis DHR2 front and 2.4 HR2 rear-and I’m a FR/DH focused rider. Surely there’s so many variables, that one cant be so dogmatic about it! Thoughts?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Yes, most people tell you what they like. They also will compare your choice to their riding hence the thats massivly draggy (if your trying to race XC on it) or stupidly lightweight (if your doing enduro/DH) comments.

    There are some simple things though about profiles being ssquare and round and some things needing you to commit harder to get them to work (but reward when you do) take most rubber stuff with a big pinch of salt

    Rubber_Buccaneer
    Full Member

    It may be worth swapping the tyres around just to see how they work but I agree with you to a large degree. How much confidence I have in my tyres plays a big part in how confident I feel and that has an impact on how I ride.
    It may be placebo but the end result is real. Same way as if I think my tyres are draggy then that will play on my mind up every hill.

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    momo
    Full Member

    I’d run those tyres the same way you are, but I don’t like the HR2 as a front tyre.

    You’re still wrong of course, it should be DHF up front with the DHR2 on the back like what I run 😉 😆

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    It may be placebo but the end result is real

    That’s what i was getting at really. I’m now in the quandry of doubting a set up that 24hrs ago i had the utmost confidence.. how odd.

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    I’d run those tyres the same way you are, but I don’t like the HR2 as a front tyre.

    You’re still wrong of course, it should be DHF up front with the DHR2 on the back like what I run

    😆

    nickc
    Full Member

    I think some folk overthink tyre choice (I’m probably guilty myself). I think that there are tyre types that clearly offer better traction in various/untypical conditions. Slicks and Mud tyres for example. But beyond those broad terms, what you have on your wheels probably makes less difference than most people think.

    Having said that, some are better than others (within a grid of Slidey grippy, rolling resistance etc) but for mortals (most of us) I’m pretty certain it makes next to no difference in the real world

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    shagged out smorgasbords for the win.

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    I think some folk overthink tyre choice (I’m probably guilty myself). I think that there are tyre types that clearly offer better traction in various/untypical conditions. Slicks and Mud tyres for example. But beyond those broad terms, what you have on your wheels probably makes less difference than most people think.

    Having said that, some are better than others (within a grid of Slidey grippy, rolling resistance etc) but for mortals (most of us) I’m pretty certain it makes next to no difference in the real world

    That’s what I tend to think. The point of gaining confidence-real or perceived- is clearly massive, and if it works, it works right? but can the average rider REALLY tell the difference? I get the feeling some like to think they can. No two runs, down the same trail are ever the same for me- and that’s what makes it challenging and fun. The inconsistency of every piece of terrain under a tyre contact patch at any given moment seems to me to be an almost impossible task to compute let alone compare.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I’d agree with your pal, but I would ask you how they worked your way rather than telling you you were “wrong”.

    ehrob
    Full Member

    Compound as much as tread determines whether it’s a front or rear tyre for me.

    Yak
    Full Member

    I like a good tyre-choice panic the night before a race. Luckily race organisers have cottoned onto folk like me and issue tyre-choice info the night before on social media. Airshots and the like were developed for us serial tyre panic-swappers.

    Placebo? Probably sometimes, unless it’s a ‘need mud-tyres day’, but I go to bed happier and ride happier knowing I’ve made the right swap.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    I’m more interested in carcass/sidewall, then compound, then tread shape.

    Still have a ‘mare trying to pick the best tyre for what I do.

    DHR II WT exo or Aggressor DD for a peak district full suspension bike more focused on going down than up? Rip through conti like they’re tissue but almost got full tread life out of an e13 dual compound on the rear!

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    Compound as much as tread determines whether it’s a front or rear tyre for me.

    both are 60a, never run a softer compound.

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    I’d agree with your pal, but I would ask you how they worked your way rather than telling you you were “wrong”.

    yeah that’s part of it. apparently “i’ll kill a HR on the back in no time, and they’re better on the front anyway” This seems to contradict my own experiences, hence the original ponderous question about how much is bullshit vs real quantifiable evidence.

    Yak
    Full Member

    If you are happy and confident on your set-up as it is, then don’t worry about it.

    joebristol
    Full Member

    I’m never sure with tyre choice either.

    Last bike I was running 2.4″ Continental Mountain King 2s with black chilli compound / protection sidewalls with inner tubes. Was pretty happy with them – running about 30psi.

    New bike has Maxxis dhr2 Exo 3G in a 2.3″ size and an aggressor exo 3g 2.3″ on the back – both run tubeless. Running about 25 psi.

    I was expecting the Maxxis to be a big improvement on the Contis but am a bit underwhelmed. Not confident in the front end grip if the trails are anything but dry at the moment. I get my weight really far forward now to weight the tyre and is ok but last night the bike was moving around all over the place (trail centre hardpack with a damp surface). In the dry the tyres were absolutely railed into the surface last week.

    Wonder if I should have gone with a dhf on the front.

    shermer75
    Free Member

    Stick to your subjective markers.
    Grip: does wheel drift or (gulp!) break away under braking or cornering?
    Dragginess: are you slower or more tired round a familiar piece of track?
    Robustness: are you getting punctures on a track that you normally wouldn’t?

    Be a little methodical and it will help your confidence.

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    Never really saw the point of high rollers.

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    Never really saw the point of high rollers.

    care to expand on that? what long term experience do you have with them?

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    Stick to your subjective markers.
    Grip: does wheel drift or (gulp!) break away under braking or cornering?
    Dragginess: are you slower or more tired round a familiar piece of track?
    Robustness: are you getting punctures on a track that you normally wouldn’t?

    Be a little methodical and it will help your confidence.

    Will do. Sound advice there i feel.

    amedias
    Free Member

    My tyre choice is exactly that MY choice, it works for me, my riding style and the type of riding I’m doing, if it doesn’t work for someone else that’s fine, I probably don’t like their grips or saddle either…

    Basically stop thinking about what other people think, by all means think about and try stuff out for yourself and listen to opinions but just because something is right for them doesn’t mean it’s right for you, but that’s for you to decide, not them.

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    The High Roller 2 2.4 and DHR2 2.4 are very similar tyres. The main difference is in the shape – the HR2 is more square, the DHR2 is more round. That’ll be accentuated if they’re on the same rim width because the DHR2 2.4 is WT tyre (optimised for 35mm rims) whilst the HR2 is optimised for 25mm rims. The HR2 rolls slower and has less braking/driving grip but clogs up less in the mud.

    Squarer tyres have more grip in loose conditions but are more snappy. Generally I think you’re best off with a rounder tyre on the front so it holds as you tip into a turn and a squarer tyres on the rear that drifts and then grabs once you’re railing, so on those grounds yours are the right way around.

    The High Roller 2 2.3 on the other hand is a waste of time – none of the bite of the 2.4 but most of the rolling resistance.

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    My tyre choice is exactly that MY choice, it works for me, my riding style and the type of riding I’m doing, if it doesn’t work for someone else that’s fine, I probably don’t like their grips or saddle either…

    Basically stop thinking about what other people think, by all means think about and try stuff out for yourself and listen to opinions but just because something is right for them doesn’t mean it’s right for you, but that’s for you to decide, not them.

    Trust me, its not keeping me awake at night. It was an idle topic for a bike forum that I thought had some valid points. I don’t need to “stop” or start anything thanks, beyond my bicycle…

    You illustrate my point nicely though, particularly when you say “i probably dont like their grips or saddle either” inferring in part that there’s too many variables involved to make a credible comment considering the vast differences in the entire bike AND rider technique involved. This degree of variability is kind of what prompted the questioning from me as to how someone can be so ‘certain’ or black and white on the matter.

    thanks to Cheifgrooveguru there btw, this was almost precisely my instinct and intention in the beginning .

    akira
    Full Member

    I think the difference between some tyres is negligible and obviously being familiar with certain tyres means you know their limits and when they’re likely to give and subsequently start gripping again.

    amedias
    Free Member

    Was only meant as light hearted advice anyway, and a general point as well, too many people get hung up on doing what other people tell them is right/wrong etc.

    I don’t need to “stop” or start anything thanks

    but it was you that said :

    I’m now in the quandry of doubting a set up that 24hrs ago i had the utmost confidence.. how odd

    Clearly his comments have got into your head to some degree, even if you’re not loosing sleep over it and idle comment form someone has now made you have some degree of doubt, I get it, it happens to me too, that’s why I have to remind myself!

    You illustrate my point nicely though, particularly when you say “i probably dont like their grips or saddle either” inferring too many variables involved to make a credible comment considering the vast differences in the entire bike AND rider technique involved

    This is exactly it, there are too many variables and personal preferences*, and I think you’re right that a lot of it is all in the head too, I’ve been told outright that ‘those tyres won’t work here’ at a race before by another competitor and also similar ‘ooh you’re brave running them!” style comments too, yet funnily enough I got round found, beat the first guy, came in 1 place after the other and I’m 99.9999% sure changing tyres wouldn;t have made any difference to the outcome.

    *Case in point, the comments above about preferring square tyres on the rear and round on the front, my preference for most of my local riding is the exact opposite, or to run rounded at both ends, I really really don’t like square tyres on the back, but that’s me, not you or anyone else.

    nickhit3
    Free Member

    fair points amedias, tip of the hat to you.

    amedias
    Free Member

    FWIW, I think this extends well beyond tyres too, suspension settings, gears, brakes, (wheel size!), angles/geo etc.

    Far too much time spent sweating the minutia from ‘normal’ people (of which I am one) over things that barely have a measurable effect for the pros and are too easily nullified by a tiny error or local geographic variances anyway.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love to get into the nitty gritty, try stuff and analyse it etc. but you need to constantly remind yourself that even the ‘extra’ performance from a theoretical perfect bike, with perfect geo, perfect suspension, and perfect tyre choice (for the variable trail!) can be wiped out by a single poor line choice or fraction-of-a-second rider error which for most of us means the main thing we need to focus on is fitness and technique over tech.

    simons_nicolai-uk
    Free Member

    As others have said, a lot comes down to personal preference and also to where you ride.

    I’ve had loads of recommendations for Maxxis Ardent as a rear tyre over the years. They worked OK for me at trail centres but on the Surrey Hills in Winter there was just not enough grip going up hill and they were spinning out.

    Loads of people run High Rollers but I’ve never got on with them – much prefer a round profile tyre.

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    If you had to boil MTBing down to five things that are genuinely important and make a difference to a bike then front tyre choice would be one of them, IMHO. A MTB component that is conspicuously not all in the mind.

    If you’re comparing similar tyres in a particular class then yeah, there’s probably a degree of bollox talked, but even then people can be quite particular about their tyres for decent reasons.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I am the limiting factor in my riding – not tyres or this years forks…

    PimpmasterJazz
    Free Member

    I stopped using tyres years ago to prove this theory correct.

    mr_stru
    Full Member

    Given how similar most tyres for any particular niche are I’d be surprised if most people could tell the difference given it’s likely to show at the margins. Spending time faffing about with pressures on the tyres you’ve got is probably much more useful than worrying about what tyres your mate or someone on here is using. Nothing like an afternoon of riding the same bit of trail making tiny adjustments to tyre pressure between runs to make you feel pro.

    juanghia
    Free Member

    I am the limiting factor in my riding – not tyres or this years forks…

    This a million times over unless of course you’re actually Nino Schurter.

    jamesoz
    Full Member

    The key is confidence, to a point.
    What’s written on the side less so, although I have fitted the wrong tyres and paid the price more than once. Too light, too draggy, too heavy, not suitable for mud, utter crap or just plain didn’t like it.

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