Hey OP, have you and your OH seen this post on research about cortisol effects on babies?

The writer is a research scientist/mum, and the articles have a fair bit more in the way of citations and actual research than a lot of the rubbish written.

It’s part of a longer series of posts that helped us work through a lot of the rubbish about CIO that is written, by both hippy dippy middle class hand wringers and advocates of child cruelty 😉

To lighten the mood a little…

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQfylQ2Jgg[/video]

Didn’t find him that funny until I had kids of my own. This usually makes me smile though at those times when the routine seems relentlessly punishing!

Maybe I define middle class wrong, to me it’s an attitude not an income bracket.

Yeah right.

Ours is 19 months and we’ve been lucky in his sleep pattern. Mostly straight through but if he does cry we leave it 5 mins and often he’ll settle himself. Little hug if it continues and back to his bed.

He has however just learned to lie the little bugger. We’d been teaching him to tell us if/when he’d poo’d. Now he cries out ‘mummy, poo. Daddy, poo) so we go check and there is nothing there. He just then giggles and lies down, little sod.

Mate of mine had exactly the same problem as you OP, two years in and still getting no sleep. He and his wife were close to splitting up as they just could not handle the lack of sleep and took it out on each other.

In the end they went to see some one who told them not to always go straight in and make sure the child stayed in their own room, even if they felt they had to comfort them. Worked a treat and they had no such trouble with the second child after using the advice given from the start.

He has however just learned to lie the little bugger. We’d been teaching him to tell us if/when he’d poo’d. Now he cries out ‘mummy, poo. Daddy, poo) so we go check and there is nothing there. He just then giggles and lies down, little sod.

Little buggers quickly figure out the things you can’t ignore… we get “poo”, “drink”, “cream” (for his itching). He has a soft toy bunny that he takes to bed and when we had the sides on the cot he frequently use to throw that out and get us to come and pick it up for him. Before you know it you’re part of a fun night time game for him!

The controlled crying thing has usually worked for us. However. Shortly after our eldest turned two, she went from a great sleeper to a total nightmare – refusing to stay in bed, insisting on coming in with us, then screaming the place down every night, refusing to settle even if I stayed in her room with her. Controlled crying totally ineffective.

It turned out that even though she had always slept best with the light off and door shut, now she would only sleep with the light on and door open. Unfortunately, she didn’t have the language skills to tell us, and we only figured it our by trial and error.

Toddler Taming# is your friend. Great book, full of common sense (some posted above). You HAVE to let them cry, if they come out of their room you put them back without talking or eye contact. A night light is acceptable. Yo-yo-ing out of the bedroom is not.

Needs a little tough love before it will get easier.

#Author advocates tying the door so said toddler cannot escape – never had to go that far, myself.

Author advocates tying the door so said toddler cannot escape

We had to do just that with our son. Can still see his cheeky face through the gap.

I used to sit on the landing reading a book after bedtime. If he came out, he was picked up carried back to bed and replaced; no words, no eye contact, no interaction. It worked. During the night we let him cry. You learn when they are really in distress.

Teen2 slept like an angel from 4 weeks. Teen1 was where I cut my Toddler Taming teeth. To be honest, the book provided justification for the common sense approach that Mrs Tired was looking for.

#Author advocates tying the door so said toddler cannot escape – never had to go that far, myself.

Yep, and our daughter was a raging, non-sleeping mess until we left the door open.

We put books in our kid’s bed when she was quite young. After all, if it’s you that just can’t sleep, what would you do? Would you like someone to force you to lie in bed with your eyes closed?

It worked quite well and still does – the rule is that she has to stay in bed and be quiet. Nowadays (at 5) she practises reading to herself for up to half an hour or so then turns her light off when she’s ready to sleep.

A key point was that she didn’t sleep during the day, even when she was small. So she was always genuinely tired at bedtime. One of our friends was complaining bitterly about her 2yo not wanting to go to bed at 7, but he was having a three hour nap at 2pm!

Since we’re all on mumsnet now, here’s how it meant for us:

7 weeks old, gets over colic
8 weeks old, sleeps through
2 years old, needs lots of stories and hugs and then playing on her bed. Falls asleep on her own
3.5 years old, starts waking most nights and appears on our room like a ninja

No, controlled crying has never worked at any of these stages.

She turned 4 in August and started school n September. With a normal bedtime of 8pm, she’s started sleeping through again

My lad sleeps right through the night in fact he can be a arse to wake up, especially if he has had a skinfull the night before.

She’s well read in psychology and kids’ literature. Constantly quotes stats and evidence at me as if it’s the **** bible

not read Super Nanny has she? 😉

This is going to be my last foray on to this thread (like anyone cares). Thanks to all and especially Mr Blobby or whoever it was that posted the video with Michael Mackintyre. I needed that earlier today. Sadly, the circular argument continues. The child cannot be left to cry for even a minute, unless the situation demands it (sitting in his car seat or whatever). Not sure where we’ll go from here tbh. If we can’t agree to a compromise or experimentation, well, that’s not good.

User removed – having had oab_no1 who would not sleep for more that 20 mins for the first three+ years of life, I feel your pain. Awful. We resolved by a week of just letting him scream – first night was from 7pm until he lost his voice at 4am. It worked though, and he is no worse for it. In fact our whole family benefitted.

I don’t know how to advise you re your wife and her viewpoint. I hope you resolve it.

I’ve been watching this with interest, I had the same thing, you have my sympathy and empathy. In the end I capitulated and I do not regret it. I regretted it at the time, and had to swallow my pride big time. My kids are now awesome and my wonderful wife has proven herself right. If I hadn’t capitulated, I fear that we would not still be together.

Women go through incredibly powerful emotions that they cannot control. My advice, trite as it sounds, is to man up and love her through thick and thin. In the end it will be the right thing. I’m not saying you are wrong, morally or whatever, but sometimes for the sake of the situation, there are things you have to accept. (that is my own experience, I won’t judge whatever you do, it worked for me)

Women go through incredibly powerful emotions that they cannot control

I meant this to mean during and after pregnancy. Oxytocin is a starting point here..

My little lad is two and slept 12 hrs a night up until a few months ago. Since turning two he has learnt to fling himself out of his cot like he’s doing a tough mudder. He then stands at the gate first shouting ‘daddy daddy’ like Alan partridge, then switching to ‘Andy Andy amdy’ before cracking himself up. This is at about 4.30 and he gets scooped up and put into our bed and we have a chat for 30 mins before I’m up for work and he sleeps with his mum till 7.30. Could be stricter but we quite like it to be honest and all seem to sleep enough