Viewing 15 posts - 41 through 55 (of 55 total)
  • Tubeless road tyres – possible with normal tyres? (Not many UST-road tyres)
  • hilldodger
    Free Member

    CO2 ‘curdles’ the sealent IME..

    bugger, so going tubeless means back to carrying a pump rather than cylinders 🙁

    ndthornton
    Free Member

    thisisnotafact

    I’m afraid we seem to have departed planet Earth for God knows where
    Which is a shame since you were speaking a modicum of sense earlier on

    Im out

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    bugger, so going tubeless means back to carrying a pump rather than cylinders

    Or just top it up with a pump (assuming it doesn’t go down entirely). I still carry CO2 on my MTB, but it does seem to then lead to repeated unsealed punctures untill you clean them out and replace the fluid.

    I’m afraid we seem to have departed planet Earth for God knows where
    Which is a shame since you were speaking a modicum of sense earlier on

    Which bit, you don’t know why the tube holds it on, I don’t know for sure, neither of us have a minature camera to record the inside of the tyre as it explodes so I postulated three ideas with explanations to back it up. Which is really a moot point, the tyre explodes, does it matter why?

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    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    But its chicken and egg then- because tubeless would be great for this- the punctures?..

    No, because nothing I’ve tried will successfully seal a cross tyre run tubeless at around 50psi or so, the sealant just streams out like an aerosol, so I reckon it’s unlikely to plug a road tyre running even higher pressures.

    kiwijohn
    Full Member

    I’ve been running Schwalbe Smart Sams on my CX bike tubeless for 6 months now & only had one burp. CO2 got the tyre back up, but I did replace the Stans when I got home.
    From what I’ve read in this thread, it’s probably the wire bead that helps hold them onto the Stans Alpha 400s.
    Thinking about trying some old wire bead Conti Ultras for the summer.
    What have I got to lose?

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Cross tyres will probably be OK under about 40-50psi. They’re still half the width of (2.5″ ) MTB tyres which you’d not bat an eyelid at 20-25psi. My Schwalble CX pro’s worked fine for an experiment on DT rims.

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    My CX’er came with tubeless ready rims and tyres, the tyres are hanging off my wall and the wheels are shod with Griffo’s and tubes.
    It’ll stay like that despite the wrath of CX’ers and MTB’ers for the one fact, I don’t trust tubeless. I don’t trust it when I’m out riding and it burps then turns into a very long pissed off walk home because it won’t seal again (as has happened when I tried it) nor do I trust it just sitting having spent 9hours trying to get the beads to seal then go flat overnight not having even ridden the darn thing.
    The cleaning ups a proper PITA too.

    We’ve done the “get GP4’s” to death now, you seem intent on faffing rather than riding, enjoy whatever you choose to do.
    😆

    dazh
    Full Member

    We did this a couple of days ago and came to the same conclusion in 40 less posts. Must be a quiet work day I guess.

    GavinB
    Full Member

    I’ve got little to add to this thread, other than I weighed up the potential issues with bodging road tubeless, having come a cropper on a bodged MTB set-up (using DT Swiss strips and valves, but with standard XC tyres).

    I decided that I’d rather not find out that the set-up was less than optimal whilst pushing the front tyre hard into a downhill corner on tarmac at 20-30 mph.

    So, I have been using Schwalbe One tubeless on Stans Alpha rims for the last 6 months without issue. They pop up without any hassle using a track pump, and only need inflated every now and again (certainly no more than the Continental Race tubes I was using previously).

    I guess there may be some combo of rim, tyre and tape that may work, but do you fancy being the test pilot on road?

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    Whyare people having a go at me for simply trying to understand this? 🙄 etc

    TINAS I still don’t understand! Engineering maths never my strong point. I’ll think more. Do you have any science backing up that the tube provides a tiny amount of grip/strength to stop a srdtyre blowing off? I really struggle with that, particularly when you are saying the forces are enough to stretch steel and kevlar beads.

    I’m only asking this as I got a non UST tyre to inflate to 90psi fine and it did not blow off, even after time.

    I’ve heard so much BS from bikeco’s and seen intelligent people lap it up, so I suspect about anything that doesn’t make sense to me.

    hora
    Free Member

    o, I have been using Schwalbe One tubeless on Stans Alpha rims for the last 6 months without issue. They pop up without any hassle using a track pump, and only need inflated every now and again (certainly no more than the Continental Race tubes I was using previously).

    Are you going to use them over winter?

    To those that say ‘I don’t want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with a deflated tyre/walk home’. On tubeless mountain bike rides…don’t you take a spare tube?

    reggiegasket
    Free Member

    using 28mm Hutch Sectors on my commuter. Doing well. Wet grip isn’t brilliant but I like the security of tubeless. Having said that, the GP4Seasons I used through last winter never punctured and had better grip, and were cheaper, so it’s still a close call overall.

    On the best roadie it’s tubeless all the way though, for grip, comfort and security.

    In fact, only the bmx runs tubes these days.

    GavinB
    Full Member

    I’m not actually running the road tyres right now, as I’ve swapped them over for some Vittoria tubeless CX tyres. Actually, in this case, I tried to get a non-TR Vittoria tyre to seat on the Alpha rims, but they seemed pretty ‘baggy’, so I re-evaluated and got hold of some TR Vittoria ones. Easy-peasy – rolled on by hand, pop straight up and stay inflated well.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Do you have any science backing up that the tube provides a tiny amount of grip/strength to stop a srdtyre blowing off? I really struggle with that

    So do I TBH, I can think of reasons why it would but as you say they don’t seem like they’d much. But experimentaly plenty of people have tried it and had non UST tyres fail in the same way, and it’s rare to hear of the same tyres just poping off the rim. So it’s an obovious conclusion that the tube is providing something to the join/seal.

    I think this point i made below is the most likely, if the only bit that’s sealed is the very edge of the rim and the bead can (abeit stiffly) ‘float’ arround freely with 100psi air on both sides then the force required to lift the bead over the hook would be relatively small (little more than chaing the tyre normaly). If you make the bead much chunkier you get more area forming the seal, which the pressure in the tyre acts on and produces force (force = pressure x area), and friction is proportional to force, so it’d be more friction stopping them pulling appart, which makes sense when you look at the recent re-appearance of hookless rims.

    it’s sealing small irregularities in the bead, if the bead was not a close fit like tubeless beads are into the bead socket then the seal may only be a small contact point around the very outside of the rim. Air would be free to equalise the pressure on both sides of the bead itself, thus the area that the pressure is acting on to press the bead into the bead socket with a force is small, therefore the force is small. Make the bead big and soft (with a tube pressing it evenly, or just a bigger bead like tubeless) so it conforms to the rim and the area gets bigger, so the force gets bigger. More force = more friction.

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    thisisnotaspoon – Member
    …experimentaly plenty of people have tried it and had non UST tyres fail in the same way,

    On what kind of rim though? Seems to me Stans style ones are going to be safer.

    As for your last comment, it seems to me that the a “line of seal” is going to be at the bead itself, not above it, therefore the sidewall of the tyre above the bead is going to be pushing against the inner of part of the rim above the bead, creating a larger area of seal, so I don’t agree with you here.

    The non UST tyre I used had a fair bit of rubber around the bead which must have helped sealing. I’m tempted to try it again (it went up easier than my Fusions!)

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