Surprised this hasn’t cropped up yet.

Personally I think he’s right and is making an argument I’ve made myself a lot lately.

[video]https://youtu.be/GLG9g7BcjKs?t=4[/video]

His he swearing all the time to appear cool or is he playing a character?.Never heard of the ****.

The people who voted Trump are to blame.

is he swearing all the time to appear cool

Swearing is cool as ****.

or is he playing a character?

He’s playing a character:

Jonathan Pie is a satirical news reporter character created and played by actor Tom Walker. He is known for his apparent ‘out take’ rants of a conflicted reporter speaking his mind about the state of UK politics.

None of which means the argument being given here isn’t valid.

The people who voted Trump are to blame.

Yes, but the important question is why did they vote for him and why didn’t more Democratic voters turn out and vote for Clinton. Why did 47% of women and 57% of white women without a college education (who probably have a husband who is also white and without a college education) vote for Trump?

You just cannot keep marginalising those people and not expect it to result in something you and I are deeply unhappy about.

Jonathan Pie may well be a fictitious character but the political reality is just that.

The simplest piece of evidence you can cite to support the argument he is making, at least in the UK, is t hat the people who voted to leave the EU and by implication therefore voted for a political ideology that is strongly associated with the right, are the same people who 20 years ago would have been dyed in the wool Labour voters.

Something happened in the last 20 years that meant the left abandoned those voters in favour of something else and now they feel disenfranchised. Quite rightly we had a significant adjustment in social attitudes, norms and moires with regard things like gender, race, sexuality, disability etc. That was a wonderful thing for society to have finally woken up to the importance of.

The mistake that has been made is that you don’t create social inclusivity of previously marginalised groups by marginalising other groups who previously enjoyed hegemony. When you do that, the leat benign outcome is that you become a hypocrit and the most benign is that you create the opportunity for people like Farage and Trump to gain power.

And it’s not even like it’s hard to get the balance right; all you simply need to do is recognise that in making these social adjustments in attitudes towards social groups, don’t make the same mistakes that caused those social groups to be marginalised in the first place.

totally agree…

let’s not make the same mistake again by letting fence sitters, bed wetters and career politicians push out Jeremy Corbyn

Why did 47% of women and 57% of white women without a college education (who probably have a husband who is also white and without a college education) vote for Trump?

If the data is to be believed, a majority of white men with a college education voted for Trump. A majority of better-off white men and women voted for Trump. Whilst a roll of the dice from the marginalised and desperate is understandable, the uncomfortable truth is a lot of comfortable, educated white people listened to Trump’s rhetoric about minorities and women, and voted for him.

yay another trump thread!

let’s not make the same mistake again by letting fence sitters, bed wetters and career politicians push out Jeremy Corbyn

I agree – I think he’s been a fabulous force for good in politics so far even though I don’t agree with everything he says; we need him and what he stands for.

Even so, I honestly could see myself voting for him, just so long as I don’t feel that his rhetoric is specifically singling me out as the kind of person to blame for the problems in society.

When people use rhetoric of ‘white male privilege’ (as they do in the US frequently and to a slightly lesser extent here) that is precisely the kind of rhetoric that turns people to vote for the other side and is one of the reasons why even educated people voted for Trump.

a majority of white men with a college education voted for Trump. A majority of better-off white men and women voted for Trump.

Yes but it wasn’t neccessarily because they are racist mysoginists and suggesting it was because they are is only going to result in Trump being a two term President.

So why did you need start another thread,did you think you wouldn’t get all the attention your ernormous intellect deserves if you had added it to the other one?****

Something happened in the last 20 years that meant the left abandoned those voters in favour of something else and now they feel disenfranchised

they started being right wing and lurched over to their side so that all they offer is the same shit with a slightly less shitty flavour- I am not even sure Blair ended up being less shitty. Its not really an alternative

Its a good point about not winning arguments by simply insulting folk

We discussed this yesterday at work and the problem the left has [ all of us were lefties and the other two had politics degrees] is that we have no credible method of engaging with “traditional working class folk” who are a bit racist/traditional/resistant* to change. Tbh we dont want to court their votes and the right are a lot less bothered about being a “bit racist” to appeal to them. The left wont do this as we think its just plain wrong.

Clearly we are not convincing enough folk about multiculturalism and tolerance and folk are still happy to blame immigrants for their woes when in reality the problem is the same failed capitalist policies that both alternatives offer.

Change is seen as desirable in itself even when , it clearly, has no chance of delivering hat i espouses and its message is total BS

* clearly not every Brexiter or Trumper is a racist but the racists are perhaps the new swing voters and I am not at all comfortable appealing to them or trying to assuage their ignorant concerns
Its a very difficult problem for the left and I accept my “tone” is also part of the problem but I just dont want to pander to idiotic numbnuts with views i find odious. I am not sure how i win them over but its definitely not by calling them that.

rhetoric of ‘white male privilege’

it was clearly a factor in his victory so what are we meant to do when folk dislike facts?
Lie and tell them what they want to hear ?

The people who voted Trump are to blame.

Funnily enough a lot of them are the same people who are likely to get shafted by him. See also Brexit/Brexiteers and Christmas/Turkeys

Yes but it wasn’t neccessarily because they are racist mysoginists and suggesting it was because they are is only going to result in Trump being a two term President.

Racism doesn’t have to be explicit. Trump is implicitly about restoring white, male privilege, so it’s not terribly difficult to work out why white males might be tempted to vote for him. Do we pretend that’s not the case because people might not like hearing it?

There’s a lot of blame flying around.

IMO it’s naive to claim it was totally one group or another, though I’m sure people with an agenda will continue to do so.

America is so **** in so many ways (as is the UK), the left have not engaged effectively yet in either country. We’ll never know what Bernie Sanders could have done in reality, but maybe…

See also Brexit/Brexiteers and Christmas/Turkeys

Some taxpayers alliance **** was on the NW News last night saying “Turkey’s don’t vote for Christmas” about a proposed council tax rise referendum in Liverpool.

I had to LOL.