Are they actually tailoring the workouts to individual needs, or just saying do “this group” of workouts to improve your weaknesses?

Cough, Hunter/Allen cough…

Not that revolutionary, i think anyone with more than a passing interest in self coaching and targetting typical xc/cx/crit races is already measuring 5s, 1min and 5min powers and comparing themselves to the chart of shame.

Also, anyone else wondering where they found a 160kg test subject from?!

Going to start turboing again. Haven’t done an FTP test since January so I theoretically need to do one… however I’m not that rested and I wont actually be rested till after christmas as its mid cx season. So do I go for my january reading or do an ftp test unrested and accept I might want to ramp it up a few percent when training… I think I know the answer 🙁

Also, anyone else wondering where they found a 160kg test subject from?!

Having just returned from the USA i’d guess there.

Wow! Dr Andrew Coggan losing the plot with Sufferfest over on Slowtwitch!! 😮

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Sufferfest_4DP_P6456277/

So, I’ve 2hrs of dedicated consistent watts Z2 tomorrow with 40km winds to contend with. This has “turbo” written all over it, by omg the boredom.

What do people do, just watch a movie or something?

just watch a movie or something

Yup. Though tend to prefer a box set of something as the time seems to go a bit quicker. Or maybe a CX race on youtube.

Wow! Dr Andrew Coggan losing the plot with Sufferfest over on Slowtwitch!!

I struggle with long sentences… but he is right, obviously it’s nothing new, which is why it’s slightly surprising that more sites that build plans for you don’t consider it. They take the prescriptive approach rather than the descriptive. Basically what Coggan says here…

Despite my efforts, many (including Sufferfest, at least up until now) have naively and mistakenly used my system to PRESCRIBE training, often via “canned” programs/workouts that don’t entail direct input from a coach/direct interaction with the athlete.

Though I guess if you’re serious about training you probably either know this or have a coach that knows this, and tailor your sessions accordingly.

Now Training Peaks are distancing themselves from Dr Coggan!

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/new-training-methodologies-road-ahead/

Yup. Though tend to prefer a box set of something as the time seems to go a bit quicker

I forgot to think about a DVD when I ordered my Zwift laptop ffs…

Can i do two hrs at z2 looking ar Zwift? I know the road ride will be erratic.

and the new 4DP training methodology from our partners

thats when i stopped reading

Kryton, nothing to stop you creating a Zwift workout at the exact power you wish to ride. Then choose a nice scenic route but engage workout mode and let ERG control your power. Your avatar will be going slower up the hills and veritably whizzing down them but you get the best of both worlds 🙂

(Or using a suitable TR endurance ride in ERG mode and letting Zwift see your power)

@Kryton, XC races on YouTube if you can find one you haven’t seen, by the time you add some pre-amble and podium presentation it usually come to 2hrs.

Terrible time of year to be starting chipping away at the mental reserves though – only so many indoor z2 rides a man can take in a season.

Kryton, nothing to stop you creating a Zwift workout at the exact power you wish to ride.

I can download my workout as .zwo and upload to Zwift for the exact criteria.

only so many indoor z2 rides a man can take in a season.

Luckily this is the last one for the next few months. It going to be windy down South tomorrow but if its not too bad i will go out rather than sit on the patio for 2 hours.

XC races on YouTube if you can find one you haven’t seen, by the time you add some pre-amble and podium presentation it usually come to 2hrs

Thanks

Do other people fear doing an FTP test? I dislike the idea of resting for 3 or 4 days (in preparation for the test) and I also know it’s gonna hurt. I always put it off. Is this normal behaviour?

Is this normal behaviour?

Yes!

Managed 90mins of Z2 outdoors total 2:20 ride time. So hard to stay in the zone in this gusty weather. The last few miles was so slow due to the headwind that I was on the verge of falling off balance.

Need another 30 mins so thats a 1/2 turbo Z2 later this evening, giving me a chance to play with my new Zwift setup.

Yes, I get nervous beforehand. Especially the one before last when I knew it was going to be a reduction. I think that makes pacing harder.

I think it’s wise to do them more frequently so you start to normalise them a bit.

I think TR helps too because 20mins at Threshold is far nicer than many of the workouts 😀

On the Podcast, Nate often talks about those rides where you wonder if your PM is incorrectly calibrated. Tonight was one of those.

Did Picket Guard and it felt very manageable for a set of under/overs. I was actually able to recover 8-10bpm during the unders and my HR barely tickled Threshold until the very last over.

So fingers crossed, my FTP has gone up even more.

I’m switching from week 8 of Sustained Power Build to the final week of the Criterium specialty plan before my race next Saturday.

My FTP test to set the level of training for Sweetspot Base 1 won’t be until the 07th Nov but I’m quietly confident that Coach Chad will have given me +30w in 9 weeks.

Very pleased with that 🙂

Sounds good, well done! I’m planning to get back into it shortly, from a protracted period of inactivity. Rather looking forward to feeling fit again, and losing a bit of lard!

Thanks!
I started off on MyFitnessPal for the first week but couldn’t stick to a deficit. I ditched it in favour of eating whatever I fancied. My appetite hasn’t increased with the workload though so I’ve still lost 6lb which is a nice bonus.

As I mentioned to MrBlobby, I’m a little concerned that the TSS drop when I switch to Sweetspot Base will mean I’ll struggle to maintain my gains but I’m planning on adding in a Zwift race each week too so will see how that goes for a month.

Do you absolutely need to hang on to your gains in FTP if you are successfully growing your base though? I guess it depends on the timing of your goals.

Your plan does sound sensible though – if you can do the required work to develop your base but keep doing some top end stuff to maintain that, then it’s a win win.

That’s a good question. My hunch is that the sheer volume of Sweetspot I’ll be doing will keep hold of it anyway. The Zwift race should keep enough top end for any Winter Crits I manage to do.

Everything I can find in their archives of podcasts/blogs implies that TSS is more useful for measuring progression relative to last and next week’s workouts rather than the different phases. Hence why the TSS drop when you move to Specialty doesn’t matter as you’re now working on the icing whilst maintaining the cake rather than baking a bigger cake.

Mmmmm….. cake 😀

For the next 2 weeks im on a TSS of 780 😯

This week will be 544 in 7h15 mins and it’s as much as I have the energy for really.

Even the High Volume version of Sustained Power Build doesn’t go above 650 😮

Respect for tackling that 8)

I’ve taken average TSS for the last 12 months, added 10% and let Training Peaks prescribe the weekly requirement.

Following Sweetspot Base low volume, then padding out the shortfall with a midweek endurance/speed skills session and a weekend club run to keep things interesting. Later in base will start adding force reps etc. after the cafe run.

None of this takes any winter racing into consideration though, tbh I’d probably just train through unless it was something I was specifically targeting…or add some VO2 stuff and sprints somewhere which I guess you’ll be doing with Zwift.

I think it’s wise to do them more frequently (FTP test) so you start to normalise them a bit.

You’re right. Did FTP test this morning and having reflected on the previous couple of tests where I blew up way too early, I changed my tactic and managed to produced an increased FTP I’m happy with and know reflects my fitness. Only a little bit of vomit along the way. 😀 Don’t feel so intimidated about them now that I can see it’s all about technique.

Out of interest, how much does everyones summer and winter TSS vary by? In summer I was averaging between 700 and 850 TSS a week but now switching to turbo/short intervals over winter I’m lucky to hit 600 a week even though I’m riding 6 days a week.

Hi all. I have had a search around but cannot seem to find an answer – is it possible to complete TrainerRoad sessions with a heart rate monitor alone?

For example if I wanted to do a couple of sessions a week outdoors without the ability to measure virtual power, can I still follow the workouts or are they all power based intervals?

For example if I wanted to do a couple of sessions a week outdoors without the ability to measure virtual power, can I still follow the workouts or are they all power based intervals?

It requires a little bit of knowing your stuff rather than following numbers on a screen, but for longer efforts (5+ mins) you can map HR zones to Power zones, and for shorter efforts you can map power to RPE (takes a little practice)

Edit: Above obviously applies to any power based interval, not just TR workouts

My FTP test to set the level of training for Sweetspot Base 1 won’t be until the 07th Nov but I’m quietly confident that Coach Chad will have given me +30w in 9 weeks.

Got bored of rest week and may be heading to Hillingdon with Nath on Monday so I jumped ahead and did my Sweetspot Base FTP test today.

Finished up on 340w dead for 323ftp. So Sustained Power Build lifted me from 296 to 323 in 8 weeks and my highest of the year.
I think that’s a nice positive way to start Sweetspot Base 🙂

I dusted off my trainer last week. Started Sweet Spot Base LV1 and FTP came out at a whopping 1.86w/kg. I suspect it’ll be somewhere close to what Chris Froome is putting out at the end of the 6 weeks. If it’s not I want my money back.

I have zero doubt it will be mate- that’s how much TR Coolaid im drinking these days 😆

CH you back on TR then? What about the Zwifting?

I might give TR a go again this winter, though my subscription has lapsed. Just starting to ride regularly again after too long a break with only sporadic riding. A bit distressing to feel so tired and weak on the bike with seemingly zero endurance, but a couple of weeks of daily riding should have it all feeling more normal again.

MrBlobby- done little but TR for 9 weeks. I do them on Zwift so it feels like I’ve been somewhere 😆

Im letting my TR sub lapse, but only becuase im coached now and the software we are using downloads sessions in Zwift format.

Having said that ive spent most of the time so far hanging over the bars staring at the floor in desparation.

4 weeks of sweetspot and with watching my diet a little more closely I’ve already dropped 1.5Kg…any adjustments in FTP to be determined in a fortnight, but certainly feel like I’ve noticed some improvements.

Could just be psychological due to the return to structured training?

Just looking at the cyclocross speciality plan.. I’m sure they’ve made the time for the mid volume longer.

Anyway, had an easy week so far since racing Sunday so planning an FTP test tomorrow then about a month of the cx plan while our season is still ongoing. I tried the ftp tst a couple of weeks ago and had to bail specatularly, if i’ve maintained ftp since when I tested last in January I’ll be happy but am expecting a drop

ferrals – Member

Just looking at the cyclocross speciality plan.. I’m sure they’ve made the time for the mid volume longer.

Anyway, had an easy week so far since racing Sunday so planning an FTP test tomorrow then about a month of the cx plan while our season is still ongoing. I tried the ftp tst a couple of weeks ago and had to bail specatularly, if i’ve maintained ftp since when I tested last in January I’ll be happy but am expecting a drop How many TR sessions are you envisaging ferrals with racing at the weekend? I’d like to do similar but realistically I’d prob only get one in.

Last year I was managing the Tuesday and Thursday TR CX sessions and either doing the wednesday session, or if fatigued a 1/2 hour spin or a 20 minute jog.

This year I’m not recovering as fast (too tired from work/baby!) so not sure I could do that with racing, up till now I’ve been still riding outside and doing a steady easy-moderate effort ride tues and some form of hard intervals on thurs, before openers sat, racing sun.

However I’m not racing this w/e or next and I won’t do well at the race at the end of Nov (its always a grass crit) so am willing to be sub optimal for that in order to be as fit as I can be ready for the regional champs (assuming ours happen then which is still up in the air).